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Hey dudes,
I've looked at some searches, but I still don't know what would be better for me to go after for a new amp in 6 months. I had a previous thread to decide between the 1959slp and 1987xl, and I think I leaned towards the 1987xl maybe.... but let me just ask again to get a clear perspective on this again...

I use an American Strat with Surfers, and i run through a Fuzz Face most of the time, for a fatter tone. I play blues/rock, (Jimi Hendrix, Cream sorta style). Im looking really to get a mellow, woody, smooth, fat, warm, yet nasty overdriven tube tone, (something like Jimi:Isle Of Wight, or Disraeli Gears). Im thinking wide, not really compressed.

So say between a JTM45, 1987xl, (preferrably these 2) or possibly the 1959slp, customized (tubes, capacitors, etc.) to their fullest potential to achieve my tone, with no regard for volume (an attentuator will help this right?), which amplifier would suit me best with a 2x12? Thanks-
Alex

you can grab a marshall bluesbreaker 2x12 (its a jtm45 combo) and replace the greenbacks with something more powerful. The JTM 45 is pretty much a hotrodded 59 bassman 2x12, so if you want some fenderish tones within reach, it wouldn't be a bad buy.

Jimi used JBL d120f speakers in his stacks most of the time, so his tone had little speaker distortion compared to the greenback stacks of the day.

Ohh yea, I forgot about the bluesbreaker, if I chose the JTM 45, id definetelly do that rather than by the head and then a cab.

Anyone Else?!???


Originally Posted by ArmotronAnyone Else?!???

? Bump!

Do you play out or have any plans of playing out? Just for the sake of knowing how many watts you'll have at your disposal. The JTM45 has 30 if I remember, so that'd be a much better amp for at home, but the 1987x would probably be better for the band scenario.

I think for your needs, a JTM 45 type amp would be perfect. It is warm and smooth and fat, with a little more fendery vibe than the other two. However, I find that it gets compressed a bit more easily due to the sag from the type of rectifier tube used. For more classic plexi tone (led zep, ac/dc, van halen) I prefer the 1987x. The 1959 is too much amp for me.

Thanks guys, one thing i also forgot to mention, is i WILL gig with this, so dont dismiss any of these amps over being TOO loud, ill stilll get an attentuator.

More Suggestions?

There's been quite a lot of discussions regarding the wattage of the Bluesbreaker RI Combo's.... Marshall catalog and homesite tells that it's 30 watt, while a lot of musicstores claim it to be 35 or 40 watt. Interestingly is that when you look under the chassis you'll find quot;50W Tremoloquot;.

A Bluesbreaker is plenty loud, and being a combo would get you everything in one package. Still a very heavy 30kg package, as you read reviews about it you will find alot of people claiming it to be too heavy. I don't really agree with them though, yes it's heavy....but it gives the whole amp a more sturdy feel as it won't rattle and shake as much when played loud. So you don't have to worry about the whole thing falling a part while playing loud, feels that way at least

Just for the sake of knowing how many watts you'll have at your disposal. The JTM45 has 30 if I remember, so that'd be a much better amp for at home, but the 1987x would probably be better for the band scenario.

The Bluesbreaker will work well for playing home, if you have a overdrive/dist pedal in front of it or an attenuator, as stated above. But I doubt that you're gonna play that loud live that you'll need anything with more watts than the Bluesbreaker or the JTM45 pushes out. And if you really really need more, then there's always the possibility to mic it up or buy an extra 2x12 or 4x12 cab later on to get more volume. It's better to have a ~50watts amp to drive harder than to have a 100watt amp that you won't be able to play with it's full potential 'cause of people claiming you play all too loud. Still volumewise there isn't such a big difference from a 50watt to a 100watt amp...While having a 2x12 combo/cab or having a 4x12 cab, would prob. make more difference.

Still to remember are that the Bluesbreaker and JTM45 are the same amp. One in a combo and one in a head. You wrote that you play Hendrix to Cream style of Blues Rock. When looking at the gear of these two... Clapton have used and as well invented the Bluesbreaker Combo while Hendrix seemed to swear by the JTM45 in double fullstack.

30 Watts will be more than sufficient to gig with. In todays world evrything should be Miked and run thru the PA. This will give the whole band a better, more balanced sound. A 50 Watt Amp should be as high as you will need to go. In order to double your Decible output you would need to increase your wattage by 10X. The difference in volume between 30 to 50 watts is minimimal. These 2 Amps sound considerably different. The JTM45 has a smoother tone than the Plexi does. The Plexi has a lot more crunch. In both cases I feel for most GIG situations the JTM 45 will be a more manageable Amp. The 50Watt Plexi is a great Amp it just has to be played way to loud to get them to DRIVE. Thats why MArshall started designing Master volume Amps.

But for the tone im looking for...... would the JTM45 still be a better pick than the 1987xl if you didn't look at how practical they were?

I posted the same question before I got my 1987x. Both JTM45 and 1987x amps are nice, but I like the sound of the EL34 power tubes with Marshalls.

The 1959 will would need more attenuation and it might sound more compressed at practical volumes. That extra 3db is logarithmic, not linear.


Originally Posted by ArmotronBut for the tone im looking for...... would the JTM45 still be a better pick than the 1987xl if you didn't look at how practical they were?

You are looking for a late 60's plexi tone, which neither will really give you, unfortunately.

The 1987X is a friggin great amp, but it's based on a 1973 circuit. It's much hotter than a true quot;plexiquot; style amp.

The JTM45 will be a bit closer but as mentioned the tube rectifier gives it a bit more sag and isn't quite as quot;explosivequot; as a siolid state rectifier amp.

You may REALLY want to look into an 18/20 Watt handwired Marshall or a clone. They are a bit more plexi-ish than the 1987x and JTM but due to the EL84's are still not quite the same. I don't know which circuit the 1959 handwired is based on, but that may be your best bet if the volume doesn't scare ya off.

Thats assuming you are quot;stuckquot; on Marshall. Voodoo can build ya exactly what ya want in a V-plex. The Fargen quot;plexquot; series are incredible too.

Now im just confused, so the tone im looking for is none of these current marshall plexi reissues? Isn't that Handwired 1959 a shiatsload of money? So what is just 1 exact example of an amp around the same price as a JTM45 RI that i could buy used? I have no Idea what to look for now...


Originally Posted by ArmotronNow im just confused, so the tone im looking for is none of these current marshall plexi reissues? Isn't that Handwired 1959 a shiatsload of money? So what is just 1 exact example of an amp around the same price as a JTM45 RI that i could buy used? I have no Idea what to look for now...

The 100 watt reissue will prolly be closest to what you want soundwise and yeah the HW version is alot of money.

The 1987x is a brighter hotter amp than a quot;truequot; plexi or the 1959 reissue. It's more Michael Schenker/Yngwie/Iron Maiden-ish in tone.

the JTM is a GREAT amp too...but it's not the plexi-type sound. Somewhere between a Fender Bassman and a Plexi. A little quot;flabbyquot; like a Bassman but with some Marshall mids and quot;sparklequot;.

The HW 18/20 are more plexi-ish in general voicing and gain structure, but the EL84's do make it sound a bit different at the same time..like a Vox/PLexi hybrid (a cool sound in it's own right)

Fargen and Voodoo make the best sounding quot;plexiquot;s I've heard besides original ones. the Fargens are top dollar. The Voodoos are very nicely priced.

You can always look into getting a used JTM or 1987X modded by Voodoo or similar. They can turn them into a plexi basically..at least with 1987X/1959X.

I haven't heard the HW 1959, but with what I've played from them, they don't make anything that really captures the plexi-sound/vibe..the originals all sound a bit different as it is..but the reissues are not quite there (but sound really good as it is..I love my 1987x..when it's working L ). Prolly why they brought back the HW 1959..to compete with the boutique makers who ARE nailing the plexi vibe/tone.

So would a Voodoo V-Plex 50 Watt be a good choice, or is that stilll not hitting it?


Originally Posted by ArmotronSo would a Voodoo V-Plex 50 Watt be a good choice, or is that stilll not hitting it?

Any 50 watt will sound a bit different than a 100 watt..jes the nature of the beast..but I would definitely contact Trace over @ Voodoo (He's a class-act, super helpful and always quick to answer questions. I suspect he can tweak it to however you wish or possibly make a tube substitution that will give it a bit more low end, less compression and grind that the 100 watts have compared to the 50s.


Originally Posted by JeffB
The 1987x is a brighter hotter amp than a quot;truequot; plexi or the 1959 reissue. It's more Michael Schenker/Yngwie/Iron Maiden-ish in tone.

I find this very interesting, maybe that's why I liked the tone of Stevo's so much. More aggressive tone.

Luke


Originally Posted by JeffBAny 50 watt will sound a bit different than a 100 watt..jes the nature of the beast..but I would definitely contact Trace over @ Voodoo (He's a class-act, super helpful and always quick to answer questions. I suspect he can tweak it to however you wish or possibly make a tube substitution that will give it a bit more low end, less compression and grind that the 100 watts have compared to the 50s.

Hmmm, that sounds pretty good, although its not time yet to buy it, I think ill do that when it is...... is it just that 100 watts have a wider less compressed sound than the 50s?


Originally Posted by ArmotronBut for the tone im looking for...... would the JTM45 still be a better pick than the 1987xl if you didn't look at how practical they were?

Do you still play alot of SRV? I figure the JTM 45 would cover an in your face blues tone much better than the 1987xl. I think that the 1987 might be a little too much power, the JTM roars the classic rock and sings the blues as well, and is more convenient. I don't know why more people won't give that classic amp a shot.

Yeah Quencho I know exactly what you mean, and I'm still thinking the JTM might be the perfect amp for me, I've decided now the 1987 will be too much, compression and power for me, more of a rock amp than a blues amp im thinking. Just listening to Cream makes me keep wondering if the JTM will be exactly the tone I want. Although ive shifted away from SRV a little bit, i still need an amp that will do both british distorted blues and some nice cleans.

Im gonna keep up the research!