software

Sorry, I know a lot of this has been discussed before, but I just kind of want the basics. I'm completely ignorant to all this, so please bear with me.

So I want to be able to record music into my computer. Starting with laying down drums, putting bass on top of that, guitar, vocals, etc.

I'm guessing I'll need some kind of drum machine program, something to get the bass and guitar sections in... I'm guessing a Line6 Pod or something? I notice there are seperate guitar and bass pods... Is there any way the guitar pod can be used to lay down bass tracks? does any variant of the Pod or a competing product have a built in drum machine? Does the Pod program have any provision for adding vocals?

Sorry, I know this is REALLY old news, but I've never really looked into what a Pod does or how it works... Or any of the competing products. Basically you can just hook it up to your computer and play, and it records the sound using whatever model it's set on? Or does it need to be used in conjunction with an amp, or what...

Ideally I want to be able to lay down the drums, record the bass line as I listen to that, and record the guitar in the same manner. Is there any available software that would let me do something like that or...

I'm sorry if I sound really lost in terms of all this, I am, this is one area of the guitar world I never had enough enthusiasm to keep up with seeing as I hate computers...

Thanks for bearing with me if you're still here, just for absolutely basic stuff that will do what I want, what kind of stuff do you recommend? A list of all the sh!t I would need would be nice.

slade

OK... this is long but worth it so you better read it 'cause it took me forever to type this (2-part answer)!!!!

Forget the POD.

You really don't need to make a HUGE investment to get this done.... assuming you already have a computer that is!

I'll list what I use and what (IMO think) you'd need to accomplish what your describing.

1) Software
I use a program called Cakewalk Sonar. I've got an older version that my buddy burned for me and it is everything I need for what I do (which is the same as you describe). Basically it is a virtual studio that allows you to record as many tracks as you want. It has built in effects, amp/cabinet emulators, audio manipulation tools and a crap load more! The look and feel is very much like a real mixing board including all kinds of automation capabilities.

Cakewalk also includes a feature called the Session Drummer, which is a collection of drum riffs sorted by genre (classic rock, metal, blues, jazz, hip/hop, etc). The riffs vary in length (measures), and you can control how many times the riff is played. You can build your drum parts from scratch by piecing together the drum riffs one by one and you're not limited to a genre category... you can pull from any of them! It's all MIDI and it will always be in time, playing to the tempo you selected for your song.

I can definitely get deeper into the specifics of Cakewalk but I'll do that upon request for fear of overloading you with computer jabber This post is long enough as it is!!!

2) Soundcard
Mine is about 5 years old, a Soundblaster Platinum. It has a cool interface on the front of my computer that includes a 1/4 Line-In w/ level control, MIDI in/out, headphones out, etc. This interface is not needed but it is super convenient. Note, I can only record 1 Track at a time. This is a limitation of my soundcard, NOT THE SOFTWARE. There are soundcards out there that have multiple inputs which gives you the ability to MIX the recorded tracks individually. Perfect for recording a real drumset where you'd use a bunch of mic's; or recording a band live and later realizing the vocals are too high... then you can drop the level during the mix. So if you don't have a soundcard then I'd suggest getting one that will give you tha ability for multiple inputs. They make rack mounted ones too!

3) Microphone
I'd suggest getting a Sure SM58. They're the most versatile, you can use them for vocals or mic'ing cabs. The SM57 is the preferred mic for cabs but they're not that great for vocals.

4) Headphones
Look for the LOUDEST headphones available.... I've blown too many because they couldn't handle the volume. I have Sony 700 (some DJ model) and I got them for the volume. Cost me about $125 but they've been great! Basically when recording you need to do everything to a quot;click track/metronomequot; to ensure everything is in perfect time. This is ESSENTIAL, no way around it, makes all the difference in the world in regards to tightness. This is why you need LOUD headphones.... because your mic'ing your cab you can't have any outside noise, so the click-track (or drums, bass, accompianing part, etc) are in your headphones while your playing your guitar at full recording volume. I set it up to actually hear my guitar outside of my headphones and only hear the rhythm section in my headphones. You can set it up either way.

CONTINUE TO NEXT POST.......

Part 2.....

5) The Recording Procedure (short version)
Everyone has their own method but this should give you an idea. Here's what I do when recording a complete song (all parts written, structure finalized, etc):

a) First you need to pick a tempo.

b) Then I do the drums. I find it much much easier to lay down guitar parts to drums rather than a tick-tick-tick metronome. So based on my song structure I build the drum parts using the Session Drummer.

c) Next I do the bass parts. For bass you don't necessarily have to mic the amp.... you can actually plug it directly into the soundcard (may need a 1/4quot; to 1/8quot; converter if you don't have an interface like mine). Always do a level check before recording. Do this by playing your part and adjusting the input level (via the soundcard software or Cakewalk) so that it's just under the RED on the level meter. You want the fullest signal possible without clipping. This holds true for anything (guitar, vocals, etc.) Once your level is set then record the bass on it's own Track.

d) Now do the guitar parts. Remeber to set your levels before recording. Another bit of advice is to record each unique part on it's own individual Track. For instance, for the verse you may have a clean tone for your guitar and the chorus you have heavy gain and all kinds of pedals, etc. Each of these parts need to be on their own Track and you'll need to re-check your levels prior to recording each as well. This gives you the ability to keep the volumes at unity (or not) when mixing the finished product.

e) Vocals. Same as above... and depending on how dynamic the vocal parts are from one another you may also want to separate them onto they're own tracks.... remember there's no limit to how many tracks you can have so use it to your advantage!!

f) Mixing. Here you play back all tracks and adjust the levels of each to your liking. This is where you'll see the importance of separating all the parts to individual tracks. When I first started recording I had all the guitar parts on the same track and then I realized the verse level was perfect but the chorus wasn't loud enough!!! So I had to do some cutting and pasting to get around it... not the most ideal approach but do-able beacuse I recorded to a click-track!!!

g) Once your mixed down then you just export the audio to a wave file, burn a CD and stalk David Geffen!!

Hope this helps!! And hopefully others chime in with their methods too... like I said there are all kinds of ways to get the job done.

-Jay (sooperunkn)

I'll list what I plan to do (when my equipment arrives, which should be tomorrow ), and what equipment I use to do it and you can make your own conclusions from that

I use a program called Reason, which is made by a company called Propellerhead Studios. It's a MIDI Sequencing program which lets you program Drums, bass, synth lines, Orcestral parts etc. It also has loop players so you can build your backing track up using various drum/instrument loops as a different option to programming I'm currently waiting for my MIDI Controller keyboard to be delivered to I can create backing tracks by playing them instead of having to draw them note by note

This is then synched up into an Audio Recording Program (I use Emagic Logic 5 and Adobe Audition) so that Logic is the master and Reason is the slave. This lets me record guitars/bass/vocals etc in real time in Logic, while Reason plays the backing track.

To do this I'll be using an M-Audio Mobile Pre USB Interface and Pre-amp for plugging my SM58 mic and line inputs (Bass/Guitar etc) into. Here's more info incase you're interested: from : localhost/this has helped and not just confused the issue

Craig

that session drummer thing sounds pretty cool. I'm so tired of programming drums for hours, only to have everyone say quot;wow, nice drum machine dude.quot;

*** Attention Admins - I propose this thread is vault-worthy! ***

Great posts from Jay and Craig already. Thanks for all the detail Jay.

Keep 'em comin' guys!

Wow... thanks all! Pretty much what I was looking for... Keep the opinions coming

I just have to track all that stuff down and see how much money it's gonna cost me now...

thanks

slade


Originally Posted by Dankerellathat session drummer thing sounds pretty cool. I'm so tired of programming drums for hours, only to have everyone say quot;wow, nice drum machine dude.quot;

It's a step up from the drum machines, but it is still MIDI and obviously can't replace real drums. The better your MIDI processor, the quot;realerquot; the drums will sound. I also didn't mention that the canned drum riffs are in Stereo too... so most of the fills start on the left and pan across to the right... NICE!!

This is my suggestion...

For drums, if you want to do anything realistic sounding, you're going to want to program in midi and then have the program run the drum map to something like Battery or Kompakt, which would trigger samples (decent ones can be had for free all over). Basically, you need a program that can handle the programming. The best I've found for this is Nuendo or Cubase SX3. I personally run Nuendo 2 with Battery 2, and am getting Drumkit From Hell this weekend.

For guitars, you're going to need a decent soundcard in addition to a POD or modelling amp, which you have. The biggest thing here is the converters, and to make sure it supports ASIO 2 drivers. The cheapest I've found is the M-Audio Audiophile 2496; $90 @ Amazon.com. STAY AWAY FROM CREATIVE! IT'S JUST CONSUMER COMPUTER CRAP, NOT SUITABLE FOR RECORDING! That said, E-mu, which they own, is good.

For Bass, I'd suggest getting a small mixer if it has active pickups, or a Bass V-amp.If I were you, I'd look into an M-box, though. They're selling for 350 right now, include Pro Tools LE recording software, and have some great converters/micpre's built in.

I agree with alot of the first answer

'cept...

I would get a pod, or similar...this elimates cab/amp micing...and allows for a ton of tones and a quiet recording environment.

I also use a soundblaster audigy 2 platinum was less than a hundered on ebay new ones are 2

A stock sound card will work, I used one for a while...you just have to play with the levels and be content with what you get.

I record bass and vocals with the pod, no problem. The bass you can be creative with or just use a clean setting and effects you want...it can be done. Vocals use the tube preamp setup (just turn off cab sim/A.I.R...whatever, makes it sound funny.

Drums.....I bought Drums on demand ....cheap and easy to use though you need a sequencer (I use ACID 4.0 ) DOD is loop based and is drag and drop into place.....you can get into making elaborate stuff with one hits later.

I use acid for drums / vegas for multi tracking / and soundforge for editing mastering.....they all work seamlessy togeother and are easy to use
Mine were quot;freequot;...if you know what I mean...Mr downloader.......

Heh... DSS, I got a Creativ Zen mp3 player that's proving to be sh!t... will stay away

bump? Anyone else got anything to say?

Vault?

My advice is to get some decent software to start, like one of the quot;homequot; versions of Cakewalk. Use the sound card that's on your PC, plug a mic in there, and get a feel for the recording process. From that point on, upgrade your setup piece by piece. Start by getting a better audio interface, like the Tascam US-122, then get a better mic, and so on. Start simple, and upgrade once you're ready.

You are just starting out at this, so there's no need to go out and get all the fanciest gear right away. Learn the basics first. All you really need is a computer, some decent software, and a mic.


Originally Posted by ratherdashingMy advice is to get some decent software to start, like one of the quot;homequot; versions of Cakewalk. Use the sound card that's on your PC, plug a mic in there, and get a feel for the recording process. From that point on, upgrade your setup piece by piece. Start by getting a better audio interface, like the Tascam US-122, then get a better mic, and so on. Start simple, and upgrade once you're ready.

You are just starting out at this, so there's no need to go out and get all the fanciest gear right away. Learn the basics first. All you really need is a computer, some decent software, and a mic.

I totally agree with you Mr. Dashing. All you need to start is 1 software program and a mic. I got Cakewalk free using the quot;buddy systemquot;. I already had a mic laying around, so I outside of my actual computer I started with ZERO DOLLARS invested. There is no need for a POD at this time (or ever in my opinion)... besides, if you like your amp's tone then all you'll ever need is a mic!!

In fact.... I remember you saying some nice things about Jazzmasters, so PM me if you need help in gathering your software

In the meantime, here's an example of my recording process described above, just a demo we put together (the bass is being re-tracked as we speak and no I'm not singing) Also, the drums are from a Yamaha electronic kit, not the Session Drummer:

from : localhost/users.rcn.com/rcasiello/music/swept_away.mp3

Peace,
-Jay

I've found the samples in Reason to be very high quality sound-wise. They're not MIDI drums, they're actual sampled drum sounds that you can play around with and use to your liking

The only thing about the drums in reason that I've found to lack 'realism' would be the crash cymbal samples, but aside from that, the sound quality is great

Just my opinion