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Hello,
This is really just a general thread about fender history. I'm on the verge of buying a new amp and am looking very seriously at fender. I think I know a little about what I should be looking for. Blackface's are more desirable that silver faces, right? The re-issues' valves are mounted to the PCB board so they're a no go.

Did Fender ever have a really bad period where everything they made was rubbish? I can imagine their sales went down a lot during the eighties. From the little I've picked up on here late 70's/early 80's is a period I should avoid. Is this right?

Please help!
Thanks, Benja

Even though the reissues have PCB mounted tube sockets, the PCB used is pretty darn sturdy and can withstand the heat pretty good. Used to not be that way but they have gotten a lot better so don't count them out just because of that.

I didn't like the red knob amps. They just didn't sound right to me.

Thanks for the tip Eric. I've got a cheap marshall and it's caused me so many problems, rubbish PCB board. I just figured all PCB's were like that. So the RI's are back in the race.

I was thinking about the Twin RI but everyone says it's too loud. Even after I explain I only want it for clean. I don't get it, why not turn it down? especially as I don't want to overdrive it. Can someone please explain this to me.

Thanks,
Benja

The early 70's are pretty decent. They sound good and aren't as exspensive as the coveted blackfaces. The 69's are silverface but I'm pretty sure they are extremely close if not the same as the blackfaces. The silverfaces are supposed to have used slightly lesser quality components. Still silverfaces are great for the money.

What are you looking for? As far as band situation, gigging or bedroom? Music you like to play etc...

I've owned 2 Silverfaced Twins, a couple of Bassman amps and a Pro amp and have nothing bad to say about any of the Silverfaced series. The best way to use them if they have the master volume is too turn the master to full and adgust everything with the gain knob.

I don't think Fender ever had a period where everything was rubbish but they had some rough years when CBS owned the company. Even during those years not everything was rubbish and one individual guitar could be great and the next one off the line could be rubbish. You have to really know the product to know what to avoid. The '73 and '74 non master volume Super Reverb amp for example sounds better to me than the blackface version...once it's been modded to blackface specs and tweaked to perfection.

However, I think the absolute worst playing and sounding Stratocasters (die cast one piece bridge and tremolo block! UGH!) and Fender pickups though are from around that same early/mid 70's period. Go figure!

Some of the amp cabinets from that period are borderline garbage too...many are wiggley and loose these days and in need of rebuilding because CBS/Fender stopped fingerjoining/boxjoining the corners like Leo did.

Once I rebuilt and tweaked my '74 Super Reverb I tossed the cabinet and put it in a handmade solid pine cab with pre-CBS style construction. Sounded better than my '65 SR so I sold the '65 blackface SR I had.

What are you looking for? As far as band situation, gigging or bedroom? Music you like to play etc...

My long term goal is to run two amps, Fender cleans and Marshall distortion. So the twin seems right for me. I like the Bassman as well, I've come very close to buying a RI quite a few times. Though there's not really any particular amp that I'm waiting for, I figure I'll just wait until a good amp comes along, that I can afford, and work from there. That's why I asked for any general tips on what to look out for. I use a lot of overdrive pedals so I'm happy to get all my dirty sounds from them until I find the right Marshall. I'm basically just looking for clean tone. Stuff like 2nd channel, FX loop, built in Vibrato/Reverb I'm not bothered about. I'm not fussed about what what5 the amp sounds like overdriven either. Just loads of clean tone that can handle a lot of pedals.

Thanks,
Benja

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention. I've come across a Concert from '82. It's not advertised as a Concert Reverb, not sure if this is the advertisers mistake or they had a different name back then. I've made an offer of £500 ($950 approx.) but am waiting for a reply. What do you think of this?

The Concerts are OK. Paul Rivera had a hand in thier design although they were actually designed by Ed Jahns who was not a musician. I believe he was an aero-space technician or something. He didn't really understand how to generate distortion in the way that guitar players think of it. IMO, they sound a little sterile even though they are Fender's take on a Boogie...sort of. Torres makes a kit to tweak them and even though Torres take a lot of heat (some of it well deserved!) his kit for tweaking the '82 Concert works beautifully.

The quality of the amp itself is very high...Orange Drop capacitors through out and it is hand wired. Not a PCB.

Here in the USA you'd never get almost $1000 for one! That's way to much money.


Originally Posted by benjaturnerOh yeah, I forgot to mention. I've come across a Concert from '82. It's not advertised as a Concert Reverb, not sure if this is the advertisers mistake or they had a different name back then. I've made an offer of £500 ($950 approx.) but am waiting for a reply. What do you think of this?

I'm pretty sure a 82' concert is a Rivera design. If so? The Rivera era was one
of Fender's high points.


Originally Posted by kmcguitarsI'm pretty sure a 82' concert is a Rivera design. If so? The Rivera era was one
of Fender's high points.

It's not. Paul was there but Ed Jahns did the actual design.

cool, thanks for the tip kmcguitars. I always thought that the Concert was a Rivera design, but Lew says not. I'd also like to hear more about the Concert sounding sterile. As I mentioned earlier, I'm really not too fussed about the Concert's natural overdrive sounds as I'm not planning to use them in the long-term. What does sterile mean when refering to amp sounds?

Is there any way to put real tube sockets on an RI and rewire them?


Originally Posted by LewguitarIt's not. Paul was there but Ed Jahns did the actual design.

Thanks Lew What did he design? the champ ll, the princeton ll ?
I see a lot of people on ebay claiming their red knob champ 12 is a
rivera design ? I think that's B.S. It's a cool Lil' amp but i doubt
a rivera design. can you set me straight on that ?

I'm gonna throw you a curveball, Benja. Maybe you should consider a Music Man amp.

You're only going to use it for a clean tone, right? The Music Man series came from Leo Fender (partly) and it consists of a solid state preamp and a tube power amp (6L6's).

I have a RD112-100-EVM and that's what it's good for- clean tone with some warmth. You can find them on Ebay, and they're dirt-cheap.

i'd say if you're using a 100 watt marshall stack, or halfstack (assuming it's tube) and you want the cleans to keep up, a twin is pretty much the only way to go

i've owned 2 silverface bassmans amp; liked them alright, i like my new one better, prolly just cuz i finally learned how to use them properly, heh

but, they also have good cleans, so if you wanna run a dual head setup, that may be the way to go. The only one i'd stay away from, is the 4 preamp tube bassman 50 with the master volume. The bass side on it is nothing short of horrible for guitar, but on every other bassman i've played, it's actually been a lot sparklier than the guitar input

the bassman RI is pretty good, and it has nice cleans - up till about 4 or 5 with humbuckers, then it just starts crunching beautifully, but, if you want high powered cleans this probably isn't your amp

another vote for a black or silverfaced Bassman...i have a 68 non-Master Volume Bassman that stays immaculately clean until the volume knob's at 6 and by then it's too loud anyway. I see these things on the bay for as low as $200 so it could be a cheap solution.

-X


Originally Posted by kmcguitarsThanks Lew What did he design? the champ ll, the princeton ll ?
I see a lot of people on ebay claiming their red knob champ 12 is a
rivera design ? I think that's B.S. It's a cool Lil' amp but i doubt
a rivera design. can you set me straight on that ?

I think the way it worked was that Paul Rivera told Ed Jahns what he wanted and then Ed did the actual design. I thought Paul did all of the designing too until I read a book on Fender amp history that was published, I think, by Guitar Player Magazine's book division a few years ago. There's a chapter on the 80's Rivera Years in that book and that's where all of my information on this comes from. There are interviews with both Paul Rivera and Ed Jahns so this is info coming more or less from the horse's mouth. I had a Twin Reverb II for a while and I was sure it was a Rivera desgin until I read that book. I'll try and find it and get the title and author for you. It's a cool book for anyone interested in Fender history. The other one I'd recommend is called, I think, Inside Fender and it's by Forrest White, Leo's long time right hand man. It takes you through the early 50's through about 1970 when Forrest quit because he was being asked to OK what he thought of as being second rate Fender guitars and horrible early solid state Fender amps by CBS.
Thanks! Lew