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I was just thinking-if Fender wasn't the first company to break guitar tone ground with the tweeds up to the blackfaces, would we still like them so much?

Let's just say that Marshall tones came first (i know it's impossible, but just an example). Would we still be hailing Marshall as the best clean tone amps if fender's first amps came after? I know this is confusing.

If another company came first and they established the precedent for guitar tone (IE Mesa Boogie), would we still hold Fender tone in such high esteem if they came out with tweeds and blackfaces AFTER?

I love Fender amps, but if the people who really kicked off the electric blues genre played through Mesas instead of Fenders, would we really like them so much? Are our ears naturally inclined to good tone, or is the taste acquired?

well, either way, Fender cleans are the best out there, so, while the mindset that fender was one of the first ones out there does play a small role in the acclaim, i think the tones would still speak for themselves


Originally Posted by Quencho092I was just thinking-if Fender wasn't the first company to break guitar tone ground with the tweeds up to the blackfaces, would we still like them so much?

Let's just say that Marshall tones came first (i know it's impossible, but just an example). Would we still be hailing Marshall as the best clean tone amps if fender's first amps came after? I know this is confusing.

If another company came first and they established the precedent for guitar tone (IE Mesa Boogie), would we still hold Fender tone in such high esteem if they came out with tweeds and blackfaces AFTER?

I love Fender amps, but if the people who really kicked off the electric blues genre played through Mesas instead of Fenders, would we really like them so much? Are our ears naturally inclined to good tone, or is the taste acquired?

Jim Marshall basically copied the Fender Bassman circuit but, used English tubes instead of their American equivalent. Randall Smith of Boogie fame began by hotrodding Fenders. Also, if I'm not mistaken, the earliest Fender amps are copies of amps that were in an R.C.A. radio amp guide. Maybe the amp gurus will chime in.....I read this stuff years ago unfortunately I can't remember where. It is a very interesting subject.

I believe the sound we say is quot;the rightquot; is very much depending on what we have been used to. The somewhat extreme treble in a Strat pickup, together with the often overly bright Fender amps, which often also were eqiupped with an extra bright control, will probably sound strange for a totally un-informed listener. Some say the often overly bright sound in Fender gear were due to a hearing defect that Leo suffered from - he had problems hearing the higher registers.

I believe the sound we say is quot;the rightquot; is very much depending on what we have been used to

.

Definately. This is what I believe. (Almost!) Regardless of however Leo could have potentially designed his amps they would still be 'the standard'! I like them a lot also, but taste is, in any subject, almost always aquired.

i'm actually not that big a fan of fender amps but i really like what sprouted from them. I'd probably have less respect if they didnt somewhat help produce mesa's and marshall's


Originally Posted by bungalowbillJim Marshall basically copied the Fender Bassman circuit but, used English tubes instead of their American equivalent. Randall Smith of Boogie fame began by hotrodding Fenders. Also, if I'm not mistaken, the earliest Fender amps are copies of amps that were in an R.C.A. radio amp guide. Maybe the amp gurus will chime in.....I read this stuff years ago unfortunately I can't remember where. It is a very interesting subject.

Yeah, i know about the marshall ripping off a bassman and Mesa boogie starting off with a blackface princeton then adding gain stages and big trannies....

That's not the question though.


Originally Posted by Quencho092Yeah, i know about the marshall ripping off a bassman and Mesa boogie starting off with a blackface princeton then adding gain stages and big trannies....

That's not the question though.

Leo Fender had the right product, at the right time, and at the right price. The point that I was trying to make is that almost all of the tube amps that came after the Fenders are based in some part on a Fender design. Heck, even solid state amps are made to sound like a Fender tube amp. I personally like Fenders....my Boogie has a Fender vibe to it on the clean end.

yeah you have a point though.

Even though other amp companies captured a different sound, they were all basically ripoffs of the original fender, so they will all have a fender tone somewhere in there.

Even though fenders are piercing bright, in a band situation they cut through nicely and sound pleasant.

Fenders were pretty much the only game in town when they came out and are still a viable amp almost sixty years later. I like a lot of other amps although most are Fender derived. We need to have one of the amp guys list the amps that basically use the Fender circuit....I bet it would be a long list.....Joe

a friend of mine was selling a blues deville 4x10 with jenson blue alnico's in it. I retubed it for him and he sold it for $200. I'm still kicking myself for not buying it, great sounding amp.

I own a '56 tweed Fender, Princeton, and in my opinion it's the best sounding amp I've ever played through. It's tone with a Stratocaster is thick, and amazing!Sprinter

I think a lot of us would still like them, even if they came later. Take the 60's brit bluesmen. Most of the blues they heard was recorded before Fender amps became the norm, and all played with Marshalls, Voxes, or other indigenous amps. At some point, most have switched to Fenders (Clapton, Richards, et al).

yeah that's true. It always comes back to the source of tone!


Originally Posted by bungalowbillFenders were pretty much the only game in town when they came out and are still a viable amp almost sixty years later. .....Joe

I have to respectfully disagree. Numerous other companies made amplifiers the same time as, or, in some cases, substantially earlier than Fender. Some of the names include Gibson, Gretsch, Epiphone and Rickenbacker.

So why do we remember Fender while the others, even if they sound good, are footnotes to amplifier history? Could it be the tone?...


Originally Posted by sgstratI have to respectfully disagree. Numerous other companies made amplifiers the same time as, or, in some cases, substantially earlier than Fender. Some of the names include Gibson, Gretsch, Epiphone and Rickenbacker.

So why do we remember Fender while the others, even if they sound good, are footnotes to amplifier history? Could it be the tone?...

You said it brother, oh yes, it's DA TONE!

what would we have done without Leo....i'd be strat-less and deluxe-less. I'd probably be playing through a PA or something...

...not to mention they have the best sounding reverb ever....

Another vote for quot;it's the tonequot;. If all that mattered was being first to market, folks would be gushing about tweed tones more than blackface.

well, tweed wins most of the time on this forum though!

But more fender players around the world go for the blackface cleans over the tweed grind.