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Which Fender Champs are the best for recording? Which are a steal as far as price goes these days.... How bad were the mid 80's 25 watt Champs that had red knobs... They were still tube champs i think... Are there any differences between the Silverfaced 70's and the late 60's Blackface models.... What Champ amps do any of you own?

Hi WF. I've got a 1965 champ and it just rocks. From what I've heard, the silverface models are the same circuit as the blackface up until around 70 or so but the quality of the components, wiring etc dropped off. Here is a nice link to Fender guitars and amps that I found a few years ago.

from : localhost/www.provide.net/~cfh/fender2.html

My Buddy just scored a 78' Champ. It's pretty cool. I have a late 80's early 90's Champ 12 That I love. It's a 1x12 combo w/t 'verb. $300 is about the Goin' rate for a SF champ these day's I got my Champ 12 on ebay right now B.I.N. $249 I'm gonna miss that Lil' sucker. But I'm up to my ears in debt again Thanks to the Mrs.:dammit:

I think the late 60's and early 70's silverface Champs are a great deal. Totally handwired and great tone. Clapton used a silverface Champ on Layla.

ericmeyer4 is selling a schweeet '66 Fender Vibro-Champ in the trading section. The price is oh so nice, too.


Originally Posted by kmcguitarsMy Buddy just scored a 78' Champ. It's pretty cool. I have a late 80's early 90's Champ 12 That I love. It's a 1x12 combo w/t 'verb. $300 is about the Goin' rate for a SF champ these day's I got my Champ 12 on ebay right now B.I.N. $249 I'm gonna miss that Lil' sucker. But I'm up to my ears in debt again Thanks to the Mrs.:dammit:

The Champ 12 came out of the Rivera-era amps. Paul has some mods for them but has denied, I believe, being responsible for theit design. They come in both the red-knob and black-knob.

My personal bias is they aren't worth the solder they used to put them together. I had one for almost 15 years and hated it just about every time I plugged into it.

The Champs you should be looking for are either Tweed or Blackface. As someone said earlier, early 70's is your cut-off point. Fender got weird with both quality as well as circuits after that point in their offerings. I've never heard of SF Champs being modded to BF specs but someone may very well do it.

Get an early 70's late 60's silverface for next to nothing, and clip of the cap on the power tubes to prevent oscillation(unnecesary and rolls off treble) and you are set for dirt cheap. However, they are still loud when cranked. 6 watts in fairly loud when cranked to get some good overdrive. Its a great place to start modding on a simple circuit though. Wonderful place to start working on amps. If you can, pick up a broken or incomplete one and start from there. Be sure you have a mulitmeter with a cap meter if possible, makes life easier. Best place IMHO to begin repairing from. I got my start on blackface and silverface champs then moved on to bigger and better things and unfortunately now a majority of my business consists of SS amps. We have recently hired a guy to do the run of the mill simple repairs on SS to make my life easier though. Grab a silverface champ pre-72ish, quality drops out after that, by the way, the later the champ, the more likely you will need to redo the lead dress and fix crappy joints.


Originally Posted by SkarekroughThe Champ 12 came out of the Rivera-era amps. Paul has some mods for them but has denied, I believe, being responsible for theit design. They come in both the red-knob and black-knob.

The Champ II (Not 12) was from the Rivera era. None of the amps curcuits from the Rivera era where designed by Paul. Ed Jahns designed them ALL. If you don't believe it? Do a fourm search. There was a post by LewGuitars a while back on the subject.


Originally Posted by seafoamerericmeyer4 is selling a schweeet '66 Fender Vibro-Champ in the trading section. The price is oh so nice, too.

Thanks for the plug!

I had a Champ II, and they're not bad, but if I were looking, I'd recommend an early SF for the best value.

I've got a nice little '58 myself.

So anything pre 72 is the way to go eh...


Originally Posted by kmcguitarsThe Champ II (Not 12) was from the Rivera era. None of the amps curcuits from the Rivera era where designed by Paul. Ed Jahns designed them ALL. If you don't believe it? Do a fourm search. There was a post by LewGuitars a while back on the subject.

I'm aware of that....but like it or not the amps are generally referred to as the quot;Rivera era.quot; I've never heard anyone refer to an quot;Ed Jahnsquot; era.

The reference to the Champ 12 being quot;fromquot; the River-era was meant in that they were AFTER the point in time when Fender had started really messing with their designs....well..more than they'd had in the 70's.

I'm well aware of the history of them. I picked up a Princeton Reverb II a few years ago for dirt cheap and did a good chunk of research before I pulled the trigger.

Weird that the prices have gone as wacky as they have though. I think I saw one close to 8 bills on eBay a few days ago.

my understanding is that the circuit in the silverface and blackface is exactly the same... so no modding is needed to quot;blackfacequot; one. There may be some difference in some components. I have heard from some sources that may or may not be reliable that the transformers in the silverfaces are a little beefier.

Bottom line, the silverface is a nice little amp and the difference in price for a blackface is just not worth it. I have a SF that I put in a larger cab with a Weber alnico blue dog (webers are one of the only larger speakers that you can get in 4 ohms) and it sounds great and is loud enough for a band with a subdued drummer.

I thought Clapton used a tweed champ on Layla?