software

I finally got my Graphtech Saddles installed. I went through the intonation process. i set the intonation at the 12th and 17th frets, but doing this left the action on the B and E strings really high. I tried to compensate by adjusting the the neck truss buy relieving truss stess and turned the truss adju hex key clockwise while sighting down the neck from above the headstock. That lowered the action a bit, I redid the intonation and the action is still higher than I want. But, now I've got a bit of fret buzzing between the 12th and 17th fret on the b string but the saddle for that sting seems to be really high already.

What adjustments do you think I should do now to get the action lowered? Thanks for the help.

intonation should be the last stage of your setup, after you've adjusted the action - saddle height and neck relief

all things being equal, changing your saddles shouldn't have made a big difference if your setup was OK before

in fender's infinite wisdom, they've removed the illustrations, but this is still a good guide:
from : localhost/www.fender.com/support/setup/stratsetup.php

Did you change string guages when replacing the saddles? Is your tremelo bridge raised higher off the body.

I follow the guides atPRoject Guitar Tutorials.

Yes changed the strings, I had 10-46's on it and I had a set of 9-42's here so they were all that I had to get these graph techs installed.

Also, the set up wasn't perfect before I made the change last night. It was set-up for floating bridge. But, now I have the claw tightened down to fix the tremolo system.

I don't have a capo handy as per Fender's instructions, and I don't have a long straight edge as per projectguitars.com's instuctions. (so why am I trying to set up a guitar without the proper tools?) It looks like I need more tools. But, I was hoping/believing that I could do an effective set up simply by feel and playability. I may be wrong on that.

For some reason, I can't attach a file to this thread. But, I did get it into my profile pic. Please check my profile and see if in your opinion the saddles heights look funky.

EDIT: I have buzzing at the 12 fret on all 6 strings...

I'll go find a capo, long straight edge, and then study the instructions are Fender.com/support and projectguitar.com step by step guide and do it right.

Until I get the proper tools at hand...can I really expect set my strat up with a low action? Is low action with a strat and 9.5quot; radius neck higher than say a Jackson with a 12quot; neck radius. Comparing Strats to Jackson or Explorers is a low action strat gonna feel higher than a low action shredder guitar?

Since I can't get my pics to post in the thread (I don't know what my problem is) will you please post some close-up pics of how your strat bridge saddles look when you have your strat set-up and perfectly intonated at all the upper registers.

I was hoping that at least one of you guys would be expert enough to look at the picture that I posted on my public proflie, and then tell me what adjustments I need to make.

From your first description, I have the impression that you don't really understand the function of the truss rod, and it is dangerous if you fool around with it without knowing what you're supposed to do. The Truss rod usually affects the first 5 to 7 frets at the most and adjusting it usually will not help a lot in adjusting the action. To check for the guitar neck's straightness without a straight edge, you can press any string (probably the 6th) down on the first fret and the 12th fret, which is usually where the neck is attached to the body. A correctly set up neck should have a very small gap between the pressed down string and the frets in between the first and the 12th fret. If you have a big gap or the string is touching the grets, the neck must be re-adjusted. After setting the neck, then you have to worry about the saddle height before you can do the intonation. I don't know why you use the 17th fret for this. I usually use the 12th fret only. May be you are following some special instructions the I'm not aware of.

Setting it up on 17th fret after 12th just makes it more accurate in intonation.


Originally Posted by AmateurFrom your first description, I have the impression that you don't really understand the function of the truss rod, and it is dangerous if you fool around with it without knowing what you're supposed to do. The Truss rod usually affects the first 5 to 7 frets at the most and adjusting it usually will not help a lot in adjusting the action. To check for the guitar neck's straightness without a straight edge, you can press any string (probably the 6th) down on the first fret and the 12th fret, which is usually where the neck is attached to the body. A correctly set up neck should have a very small gap between the pressed down string and the frets in between the first and the 12th fret. If you have a big gap or the string is touching the grets, the neck must be re-adjusted. After setting the neck, then you have to worry about the saddle height before you can do the intonation. I don't know why you use the 17th fret for this. I usually use the 12th fret only. May be you are following some special instructions the I'm not aware of.

Yeah, trussrod adjustment is the first thing you want to do in setting up your guitar...intonation the last. The trussrod should not be used to quot;raise or lower actionquot;...your setup will never be right...saddles adjust action. Once you have the neck straight, you may want to add a little bow to it depending on how you like the neck to feel. That is about it.

Adjust trussrod...tune to pitch

Adjust saddles...tune to pitch

Adjust intonation


Originally Posted by AmateurI don't know why you use the 17th fret for this. I usually use the 12th fret only. May be you are following some special instructions the I'm not aware of.

If you intonate at the 12th fret only the intonation becomes progressively flatter as you go higher. This is because the arc relief causes the fingerboard's aspect angle to level out relative to the string. The string's displacement, to which the induced strain is proportional, remains approximately constant between the 12th and the 21st frets. The linear displacement of the saddles however represents an increasing percentage of the string's speaking length, so the string is being progressively overcompensated as you go higher. It happens that this effect also occurs close to the nut as well, because of the very small displacements there. Tempering the intonation to strike a balance between the accuracy at the 12th fret and the higher frets helps to offset the problem at both ends of the fingerboard. It also introduces a meaasure of compensation for progressive inharmonicity.

I keep it pretty simple. I tune to pitch and then adjust the truss rod if needed so that when I hold the strings down at the first fret and the 21st fret I can slide a Fender medium pick between the underside of the string and the frets in the middle of the neck...that's the gauge I use. Actually, I don't even bother with that most of the time...I do it by eye.

Then I set the action ht. and intonation.

I adjust the action so the arch of the saddles matches the arch of the fingerboard. I tend to set it as low as I can go without undo buzzing when I fret the strings.

Then I try bending some notes and see if I can bend the three unwound strings up a whole step or step and a hald without fretting out or choking. If I do experience that I'll raise the action a little more until I don't have that problem.

Then I'll reset the intonation one more time and call it done.

If the action's alot higher than I like, it's usually anindication that the guitar needs a little fretwork and fret leveling.

After that, I'm usually able to get the action lower and kore comfortable.

I've found that most guitars DO need a little fretwork, leveling, recrowning and polishing before I'm satisfied...but I'm very picky. (As most of you have probably noticed!)

Lew


Originally Posted by big_blackThe trussrod should not be used to quot;raise or lower actionquot;...your setup will never be right...saddles adjust action.

While I don't disaagree with your post in principle, I think the truss rod is used to adjust the action, albeit indirectly.

The action is a function of five parameters:
1. the player's attack
2. string gauge
3. nut height
4. arc relief (controlled by the truss rod)
5. saddle height

Of these, I feel the saddle height is the least important. The arc relief takes its cue from the player's attack, which defines whether he needs a deep relief arc or a shallow one. The arc relief then defines a limit to the action height. Attempting to lower the action using the saddles beyond this limit results in the strings fretting out at he higher frets. For this reason I don't believe that you can consider all these parameters in isolation.

Incidentally, I think that this is what our guy's, problem is; too much arc relief, then trying to set the action low at the saddles or bridge. This would cause the buzzing above the 12th fret.


Originally Posted by LewguitarI keep it pretty simple. I tune to pitch and then adjust the truss rod if needed so that when I hold the strings down at the first fret and the 21st fret I can slide a Fender medium pick between the underside of the string and the frets in the middle of the neck...that's the gauge I use. Actually, I don't even bother with that most of the time...I do it by eye.

That's a good way to do it Lew.

I used to have to set up 30 or 40 cheap Korean guitars a day and I learned to do everything by eye and feel using the string as a straight edge. I posted my procedure elsewhere so I won't repeat it here but it's very close to the one you've outlined here.

One thing I tend to disagree is that the truss rod does not and cannot control the arc relief beyond the 12th fret because the neck is attached solid from there on to the body. The higher notes will go flatter no matter what because of that. Using the 17th fret is only setting the lower notes a little higher to compensate for that. It's just robbing Peter to pay Paul. Unless one uses the notes in the higher pitches most of the time, it's not a good idea to set the intonation that way.


Originally Posted by octavedoctorWhile I don't disaagree with your post in principle, I think the truss rod is used to adjust the action, albeit indirectly.

The trussrod adjustment is certainly linked to action of the guitar, but you should not be using it to raise and lower the strings. That is a saddle adjustment. I don;t know if that is what he was trying to do, but many people make that mistake.


Originally Posted by octavedoctorIncidentally, I think that this is what our guy's, problem is; too much arc relief, then trying to set the action low at the saddles or bridge. This would cause the buzzing above the 12th fret.

I prolly should have taken it in to a guitar tech to do this...but, I got to thinking about it....oooh, that's danger if I ever saw it!...I didn't want to spend the money and I wanted the experience...It's not like I was gonna kill any body changing the saddles on a strat...I had enough knowledge to be dangerous...So, I went for it...

My strat was not perfectly set-up before I changed the saddles. I already had some buzzing going on before. Another one of our prominent forum bro's had said that he checks the intonation on every fret 12th to 22ned. That sounded better than only using the 12th fret, but every fret was too much for me. So I randomly chose the 17th fret as a compromise.

I simply changed the saddles and proceeded to tune and intonate. I really didn't want to adjust the truss, I only did so after trying to compensate using the saddle heights. By raising the saddles to where the saddles reach the point of eliminating fret buzz the resulted in a set-up that is way too high for my preference. Workable, but I wanted it to have a lower action. The procedure of fine tuning the intonation required adjustments to both vertical (saddle height) and horizontal (lateral position) saddle changes.

Octavedoctor, Yes, that is exactly the conclusion that I have reached reached. After I realized that the saddle height adj wasn't getting me what I needed, I adjusted the truss, but I went the wrong way which gave me more buzzing, rats. Re-adjusting to add a bit more arc makes allowance to lower the saddle heights. My thought experiment led me to make the wrong truss adjustment.

If I may speak in generalites for a moment, let me see if I am getting closer to correct now: with a perfectly flat/straight neck the saddles would need to be very high to provide reasonable playablility; but, for a neck with a high degree of arc, for maximum playability the saddles height would need to be very low.

Lew, I really like the sound of your method, I'm gonna print it out and keep it. That's exactly what I am gonna do to set it up. I really didn't want to have to get out rulers and straight edges. (I'll print out this thread and keep it for reference.)

I had been terrified of adjusting the truss, but something besides the saddle adjustment had to be done. Experience is the best teacher. When i get back to my guitar tonight, I will make it right. The best way to learn is just to do it.

Lew and octavedoctor...you guys rock. thanks for taking the time to lend your advice and get me on the right track. It is greatly appreciated. Thanks again for helping out an amature guitar tech.


Originally Posted by big_blackThe trussrod adjustment is certainly linked to action of the guitar, but you should not be using it to raise and lower the strings. That is a saddle adjustment. I don;t know if that is what he was trying to do, but many people make that mistake.

My set-up was less than perfect before and I tried to remove the fret buzz via the truss rod adjustment. Something else had to give, raising the saddles to remove the buzzing ended up with the saddles way to high. From what I saw and my inexperience, I concluded that the truss had to be adjsuted. there was no other way that I could see. It was the last resort.

Thanks for your help, Mr. White Sox fan


Originally Posted by Guitar ToadMy set-up was less than perfect before and I tried to remove the fret buzz via the truss rod adjustment. Something else had to give, raising the saddles to remove the buzzing ended up with the saddles way to high. From what I saw and my inexperience, I concluded that the truss had to be adjsuted. there was no other way that I could see. It was the last resort.

Thanks for your help, Mr. White Sox fan You may need to have the frets dressed too.


Originally Posted by big_blackYou may need to have the frets dressed too.

What does having the frets dressed do?

It involves leveling the frets and crowning the top. Is this a Mexi or American Strat?

It's a mexi Jimmy Vaughan strat.