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Hi,

I've been swapping pickups into a gibson es446, and it's driving me a bit nuts - I know the tone I want is in there, but haven't been lucky so far - here's what I've tried...

Gibson 57 classic - nice clean tones, but very mid heavy and quot;cloudy soundingquot; with dirty sounds, not enough detail on the top, and not enough punch to cut through the mix at the gig

Dimarzio Norton - more power and really nice sounds, but a quot;low midrange focusquot; to the pickup - lacks brightness, although it had the punch, and didn't cut through as well at the gig

Duncan Seth Lover - at lower volumes at home, this sounded like THE BOMB. in a gig situation, things changed dramatically - WAY too bright/piercing, and that microphonic/honky quality bugged me a little bit. Had to turn the treble on the amp down to 1. This pickup absolutely cut through the mix tho at the gig - no problem there. Output level was fine as well.

So - basically, I'd like the punch of a Seth, minus the extreme brightness and a bit more fatness in the mids, and without some of the glassy/microphonic toppiness.

Does that exist?

Thanks!
Dan

If you found the Seth too bright, the only thing in the Duncan line up to recommend to you would be the APHb or maybe (just maybe) the Custom Custom. Listen to the clips on this website. They might help.

Phat Cat?

I've got an ES-125 thin hollowbody with P90 and they seem
made for each other. Jazz, blues, rockabilly...

You didn't say anything about your neck pickup and/or desired tone, but
a P90 should have a quot;vintagequot; vibe, but with a bit more honk than a Seth.

I'm going with a DiMarzio Virtual PAF in the bridge spot of my Washburn semi-hollow. I'll pair it with an Air Classic in the neck spot. The guitar has a mahogany body, so I think the scoop in the EQ of the Air Classic will work better for neck tones than the V-PAF neck model.

Thanks for the replies everyone - much appreciated. Don't know much about the APHb or Custom Custom but I'll do a little research to see if they are possibilities. Any additional comments are welcome!

Someone above asked about my neck pickup, and I didn't ask about that one because a) the 57 classic seems to be fine there, and b) I don't do much playing on the neck pickup - I'd say 99% of my playing is on the bridge.

hmmmm Seth too bright, eh?

Try APH1 as was suggested orrrrrr hmmm try the Dimarzio Air Norton or Air Zone but damn those are high powered. You would probably find Fralin's bright. hmmmmmm never heard the 57s as mid heavy
hmmmmmm Virtual Hot PAF may seem bright to you too.

What amp are you using? Maybe it's the amp?

I always though Bridget Fonda was pretty hot...


Originally Posted by OlinMusichmmmm Seth too bright, eh?

Try APH1 as was suggested orrrrrr hmmm try the Dimarzio Air Norton or Air Zone but damn those are high powered. You would probably find Fralin's bright. hmmmmmm never heard the 57s as mid heavy
hmmmmmm Virtual Hot PAF may seem bright to you too.

What amp are you using? Maybe it's the amp?

Hi - thanks for the comments. I use a modified deluxe reverb - it's basically a 65 that's been worked over pretty significantly. It's an evenly balanced amp with a 12quot; EVM-12, and not as bright as a typical DR -- I've heard marshalls that were brighter out of the gate...

My main guitar, a brian moore, has a JB in the bridge, and it's perfect through this amp, both at low vol's and at gig vol.

I was even thinking of throwing a JB in the 446 to see if it might work - any thoughts on how a JB would compare to a Seth, from a brightness/shrillness point of view?

Thanks,
Dan


Originally Posted by BachToRockI always though Bridget Fonda was pretty hot...

- Yeah, i laughed at the title too - guess that's the price of hitting the enter key a bit too quickly...

The JB will have a warmer top end than the Seth, but will also have a big spike in the high mids. I don't care for it in a Gibson style axe. It's also going to be quite a bit hotter. If you don't mind going that hot, I'd first look at the Custom 5 or Custom Custom.

The JB in the bridge could can get a sort of Bill Frisell tone clean, a
sort of quot;dark brightquot;. Between the wind and the potting, I don't think
you'd have any shrillness problems.

Regarding hotness and mixing. I had a Seth neck and JB bridge in a
semi-hollow, mostly playing blues tinged and modernish jazz. The jb mixed
very nicely with the Seth. I usually used the neck alone, but sometimes
if I needed more air and less bass, I'd throw the selector to the middle
position.

And I had the JB alone for more emphatic moments.

before you continue swapping any more pickups, why not experiment with a few diff. value capacitors on your bridge tone pot, and see if you can tame it that way.

My 59B was too bright on my Epi SG, so I put in a .047 cap and keep my tone pot below 4. Prior to that I had a Seth bridge, and, as you experienced yourself, it was too bright, brash and clangy for my taste.

Hi vegetable, my findings concering in changing the cap was that i had the better tone, but i drowned faster in the mix. I need cut/attack but not shrillness. i had good luck with the DiMarzio VPAF and the Custom (now its a Custom 8 - not so shrill and less bass)

Hey Dango, I have the same guitar. Was curious what pickups you ended up putting in the guitar....did you find the tone you were looking for? What kind of music do you play? Peace out.

Mag

Hey Dango I would really check out the Alnico 2 Pro if I were you, it's not as bright as the Seth, but has that plucky feel/tone.

Here's my generic pup breakdown, hope it helps.

The 59---The 59 is the quintessential A5 PAF (patent applied for) pup. Imagine getting in a time machine and going back to 1959 and swiping a brand new A5 pup from the Gibson factory in Kalamazoo and bringing it forward to today. They have found most homes in many neck slots. It has symetrical coils and lots of quack. It has thumping bass, a scooped mid, and cutting highs. Vintage 2 Conductor Wire

The Seth Lover---This pup is as true to the original as can be. This pup is unpotted and comes standard with a gold, or nickel pup cover. It has an A2 magnet and has good quack and fair mids. For this pup imagine going back in time to 1955 and grabbing one of the very first PAF's before they debuted in the LP's. This pup is warm and creamy, but can also get bright with the tone knob on 10. Vintage 2 Conductor Wire

The Alnico 2 Pro---The warmest of the Duncan PAF line. It has symetrical coils and is a modern take on the A2 PAFs. It has round bass and smooth treble, it also has lots of mids to make the guitar really sing. It will warm up the coldest or shrillest of guitars. The most well known Alnico 2 Pro user is Slash of Velvet Revolver and GNR. Standard 4 Conductor Wire

Pearly Gates---The PG is the hottest of the Duncan PAF line. It has asymetrical (mismatched) coils and an A2 magnet. The mismatched coils give this particular pup its rude personality. It has a frequency push in the Presence/Cut knob frequency band. This is the quot;Sizzlequot; PG owner talk about. It has the most mids of the Ducan PAF line and is also the hottest. Its patron is Billy Gibbons of ZZ Top. Standard 4 conductor Wire

The Jazz---The jazz is the pup that bridges the gap between Vintage and Modern pups. Its output is at or around the vintage level. Don't let the name fool you this pup is very versatile and smooth. It has an A5 magnet and is very widely used in the neck slot. It is articulate regardless of the tuning as well. This pup negociates cleans or overdrive very well. Standard 4 Conductor Wire

The Custom Series---The Custom Series is all on pup configuration but with different magnets. The coils are symmetrical and the pups come with Standard 4 Conductor wire

Custom---The Custom is a PAF kicked up a few notches. This pup gets its aggressive edge from its Ceramic magnet. This pup has lots of grind with good treble and midrange. It also has ample bass for palm mute playing.

Custom Custom---The Custom Custom is a midrange heavy pup that lends itself to leads and warming bright guitars. This pup gets its huge midrange from the Alnico 2 magnet. I has smooth bass and treble. Essentially it is an overwound A2 PAF.

Custom 5---The Custom 5 is a pup with an EQ very identical to The 59. It has thumping bass, scooped mids, and cutting treble. Like the 59 it is a bright pup that will liven up dark guitar, but the bass can be overwhelming in a bassy guitar, or the the treble overwhelming in a trebly guitar.

JB---The JB is in a class of its own. There is really no other pup like it. It has fair bass and lots of treble. This particular pup has a large upper mids spike that allow it to cut through the mix like no other. It can be heard on countless recording especially throughout the 80's. Lots of people like to pair it with a Jazz or 59 in the neck. In bright guitars it is usually soldered to a 250k pot just like the original Seymour made 30 years ago.Luke