If you read through various Gibson threads, you'll see that I've owned tons of them and am always at the forefront of defending their QC. That changed in the past two weeks with two new Gibsons I bought.
First I ordered an ES-333 in brown. When it arrived, the upper top horn had a black sharpie line from the binding straight down the top a couple inches long. A closer look showed that this was under the satin finish making it clear that someone was using the sharpie at the Gibson factory to mark the blanks, and they went ahead and used a marked piece for the top of this guitar. This guitar retails for 1199 without a case, and came with a ****ing sharpie line drawn bigger than **** right on the top of the guitar and nobody seemed to care that is shipped that way (I returned it to MF, they were cool about it).
So then I decide that I'm not messing around with the cheap stuff anymore. I contacted a boutique dealer whom I have bought several Gibsons from in the past, and he gives me a killer deal on a new ES-335, about 500 off MF's listed price. Problem is, I want the translucent brown and he doesn't have any in stock, he has to order it from Gibson. I said go ahead and order it, but to shorten the wait and save some shipping costs, I requested that he have Gibson drop-ship it directly to me.
Well it arrived today from Gibson. First I open the case to find a handful of sawdust scattered all over the guitar and inside the lining of the case, I had to carefully dust it all off, and vacuum the case out and hoped there were no significant scratches from the small wood chips. Then there's no case candy, no case paper, no warranty, no shipping papers, no truss rod tool, nothing, just an empty case (save for the guitar and sawdust). Then I notice the guitar itself, while beautiful, has no flame. Gibson's site says they're flamed, Gibson's stock photo that they are forcing dealers to use (no real photos of actual items allowed anymore) shows a killer flamed top, but mine has none. Pretty much a plain top; looks like a shiny 333 rather than a 335. I inspect the guitar more, and I find the strap lock at the neck heal is screwed in crooked and is not flush with the guitar; it's ****ed, leaning like the tower of Pisa. Now I'm getting a bit anal and looking closer, and I see that the left middle Grover tuner is screwed in slightly crooked and out-of-line with the other tuners, again this is hardly noticeable, but given everything so far before it, it pissed me off. I'm not a very picky person and usually don't notice, and am not bothered by little imperfections, so I can imagine that if someone else who's more pickey than I am were to look this guitar over, would likely find even more wrong (I'm afraid to check more!!)
This guitar retails for 2400!!! And they can't screw a couple ****ing screws in correctly? As for the flame, or lack of flame, I think they are using cheaper woods but still charging as if they were using the good stuff.
So, I haven't had time to call my dealer, but I'll have to let him know what's up tomorrow and see about shipping this ***** back. I don't think I want Gibson to send me another one blindly, and this combined with my distaste for Gibson's business policies recently have me very reluctant to buy another new Gibson anytime soon.333 with the sharpie line:
Gibson stock 335 photo (notice all the flame?)
My 335 that arrived today:A friend's 335 that has flame, can you tell a difference?
What do you think, is my gripe valid or am I being too much of a baby? Would would you're thoughts be if you were in my place?
Thanks for letting me rant
I hope you can send it back. Get an Edwards for 1/3 the price
dern corporations.
-X
Sorry to hear about the big hassle. In the past several years, I've only bought Gibsons used locally, or new/used on Ebay (with detailed pics). Normally, they're the best guitars I own, with no flaws. I simply won't buy something if I can't see it, or at least see clear pictures. I'm leery of online retailers who use an advertisement picture, not the real one. I think Musicians Fiend is notorious for taking manufacturer's blem guitars and passing them along, hoping the sale sticks.
I guess my new mantra is quot;if I can't find it cheap on Ebay or Recycler.com, I don't need it.
Originally Posted by TattooedCarrotWhat do you think, is my gripe valid or am I being too much of a baby? Would would you're thoughts be if you were in my place?
To paraphrase something I saw in a recent issue of MPH magazine, this is unacceptable in the same way that you should not have to pay 75,000 for a high-end European car ( ) and see a mild distortion of the glass in the rear window.
I'd start looking into Heritage, Edwards, and ESP Eclipse-series stuff.
There is no bigger bummer than having someone that you love and trust kick you in the nuts, especially when they do it more than once. I'm sorry that it happened to you, TC.
I think that the best advice is to avoid the blind purchase and to go with the guitar that you can see and play. I know that it's not the most convenient thing, but I think that it beats going through all that they've put you through.
Again, I'm sorry that you've had to go through all of this. If I went through that, I would be insane and looking for Gibson exec's home addresses.
I feel for ya. The rumors I have heard is that there was a BIG turnover of employees in the Historic shop. From one of the shops around here said many of their familiar contacts just weren't there one day. I havn't heard anything about the USA gibson custom shop. The wood is also a problem. the 94-95 L.P's are coming with 2 piece backs. So I imagine that means wood is starting to be at a premium. I would go with G.J.s sugestion and not buy sight unseen.
Sorry man
return it ASAP...that is 100% pure bull s**t for a guitar of that cost!! i'm done with new gibsons, unless something amazing comes along or they go back to the way they once were along with real internet pics from small dealers (i doubt either will happen). my last studio i bought b/c i got a great deal on it but it has flaws that a gibson should not have...if they didn't knock the cash off i never would have bought it...but i was just looking for a player so i let it slide, even though it's BS!! so, unless it's used or i get a sick deal i'll be buying a PRS or having a one off custom Mirabella guitar built for my next high guitar purchase (after graduation when cash flow will be high)
-Mike
That is unsat! I have always loved Gibsons and I wouldn't trade my LP for anything. It bums me out to hear people spending there hard earned cash and get ripped off. It's not like you bought some 100 dollar cheappie.
Originally Posted by TattooedCarrotWhat do you think, is my gripe valid or am I being too much of a baby? What would your thoughts be if you were in my place?
I refuse to answer the second question on the grounds that it might incriminate me- murder is a capitol offense in most of the 48 contiguous states...
I was very pleased with the LP Jr I got from MF in 2003 for 500 (Gibson was discontinuing them... to introduce their crappy Melody Makers???) But the one in the local store had black paint from the neck splotched all over the fingerboard. Yech!
You might want to look into a Heritage H-535... they are the ex-employees from Gibson who bought the old guitar shop in Kalamazoo.
I replied to your thread on the Gear Page...LOL, I guess you're spreading the bad news on those tards @ Gibby!
Funny thing is, I did something similar with Warmoth awhile back amp; got totally different response.
I guess Gibby bad, Warmoth good!
I too, like you, have very hi expectations for my money and lo tolerance for slip-shod Q.C.
I've got pretty thick skin. I can put up with alot. I would be willing to buy either of those guitars used if they played well.
But for a brand new guitar that costs so much... well, I wouldn't like it!
slade
Originally Posted by Gary LaddI too, like you, have very hi expectations for my money and lo tolerance for slip-shod Q.C.
That's the odd thing, I usually don't have a critical eye, but these things just jumped out at me. In 5 seconds of opening the case I got no flame, handful of sawdust, and no paperwork. Then I was pissed and started looking, I bet a true critical eye would find even more wrong than I have.
Originally Posted by TattooedCarrotThat's the odd thing, I usually don't have a critical eye, but these things just jumped out at me. In 5 seconds of opening the case I got no flame, handful of sawdust, and no paperwork. Then I was pissed and started looking, I bet a true critical eye would find even more wrong than I have.
Maybe that's my problem...having worked for the first 16 years of my adult-life as a Quality/Design Engineer in Aerospace, with critical mission precision assemblies toleranced down to .00005 in some cases, I know what GOOD QC is...and most of the guitar companies today obviously don't.
What's more, with all the migrant day laborers floating around, you can betcha the MIA label means about as much as GIBSON PURE
I've got your GIBSON PURE right here:
Gary...you should have posted the pic of the real sign Gibson had up at first before they thought it was quot;too wordyquot;....
-Mike
Originally Posted by XSSIVEGary...you should have posted the pic of the real sign Gibson had up at first before they thought it was quot;too wordyquot;....
-Mike
Now that is a beautiful thing. It's just sad 'cause it's true.
Face it boys, Gibson is now in their CBS era. God willing, someday the company will be bought by a party who actually has a passion for making great guitars, and they will bring the quality back up, slash the prices, and start treating customers and dealers with respect. Until then, I will never buy a new Gibson (did I say never? I meant NEVER!!!!!). When it's all about cutting corners and jacking prices, I am all about exploring other options. I wish that everybody could see beyond the name on the headstock and look elsewhere. If their sales started to drop off significantly, they might change their corporate outlook.
Originally Posted by MikeRockerNow that is a beautiful thing. It's just sad 'cause it's true.
Face it boys, Gibson is now in their CBS era. God willing, someday the company will be bought by a party who actually has a passion for making great guitars, and they will bring the quality back up, slash the prices, and start treating customers and dealers with respect. Until then, I will never buy a new Gibson (did I say never? I meant NEVER!!!!!). When it's all about cutting corners and jacking prices, I am all about exploring other options. I wish that everybody could see beyond the name on the headstock and look elsewhere. If their sales started to drop off significantly, they might change their corporate outlook.
1 Sad but true.
TC, you're not being too picky, man. 2500 is ALOT of dough to spend on ANY guitar. There is absolutley no reason you should have to settle for anything less than perfect, especially from a company as big as Gibson. I think every guitar manufactuer has an obligation to their reputation and to their customer to sell only perfect instruments, regardless of the price.
Send it back. If you settle for it, Gibson wins and they'll keep putting out crappy merchandise. Return it and hopefully Gibson will wake up one day when they realize no one is buying their poor quality guitars.
Rite now my budget allows me to spend about 1000 on a guitar. I ordered a 800 martin from MF. I had to order 4 of them until I found one that was satisfactory to me. I'm very picky, no matter what the price was...
WoW...that scared the rootbeer paul out of me...LOL!!! i think i'm gonna make a trip down to Lexington Ky to Willcutt guitars and pick out a Paul in person...this story just reaffirmed that i should probably do that!
Originally Posted by HossWoW...that scared the rootbeer paul out of me...LOL!!! i think i'm gonna make a trip down to Lexington Ky to Willcutt guitars and pick out a Paul in person...this story just reaffirmed that i should probably do that!
If I'm spending 2000 on anything, I'd want to see it first.
Do not buy a new Gibson!
First I ordered an ES-333 in brown. When it arrived, the upper top horn had a black sharpie line from the binding straight down the top a couple inches long. A closer look showed that this was under the satin finish making it clear that someone was using the sharpie at the Gibson factory to mark the blanks, and they went ahead and used a marked piece for the top of this guitar. This guitar retails for 1199 without a case, and came with a ****ing sharpie line drawn bigger than **** right on the top of the guitar and nobody seemed to care that is shipped that way (I returned it to MF, they were cool about it).
So then I decide that I'm not messing around with the cheap stuff anymore. I contacted a boutique dealer whom I have bought several Gibsons from in the past, and he gives me a killer deal on a new ES-335, about 500 off MF's listed price. Problem is, I want the translucent brown and he doesn't have any in stock, he has to order it from Gibson. I said go ahead and order it, but to shorten the wait and save some shipping costs, I requested that he have Gibson drop-ship it directly to me.
Well it arrived today from Gibson. First I open the case to find a handful of sawdust scattered all over the guitar and inside the lining of the case, I had to carefully dust it all off, and vacuum the case out and hoped there were no significant scratches from the small wood chips. Then there's no case candy, no case paper, no warranty, no shipping papers, no truss rod tool, nothing, just an empty case (save for the guitar and sawdust). Then I notice the guitar itself, while beautiful, has no flame. Gibson's site says they're flamed, Gibson's stock photo that they are forcing dealers to use (no real photos of actual items allowed anymore) shows a killer flamed top, but mine has none. Pretty much a plain top; looks like a shiny 333 rather than a 335. I inspect the guitar more, and I find the strap lock at the neck heal is screwed in crooked and is not flush with the guitar; it's ****ed, leaning like the tower of Pisa. Now I'm getting a bit anal and looking closer, and I see that the left middle Grover tuner is screwed in slightly crooked and out-of-line with the other tuners, again this is hardly noticeable, but given everything so far before it, it pissed me off. I'm not a very picky person and usually don't notice, and am not bothered by little imperfections, so I can imagine that if someone else who's more pickey than I am were to look this guitar over, would likely find even more wrong (I'm afraid to check more!!)
This guitar retails for 2400!!! And they can't screw a couple ****ing screws in correctly? As for the flame, or lack of flame, I think they are using cheaper woods but still charging as if they were using the good stuff.
So, I haven't had time to call my dealer, but I'll have to let him know what's up tomorrow and see about shipping this ***** back. I don't think I want Gibson to send me another one blindly, and this combined with my distaste for Gibson's business policies recently have me very reluctant to buy another new Gibson anytime soon.333 with the sharpie line:
Gibson stock 335 photo (notice all the flame?)
My 335 that arrived today:A friend's 335 that has flame, can you tell a difference?
What do you think, is my gripe valid or am I being too much of a baby? Would would you're thoughts be if you were in my place?
Thanks for letting me rant
I hope you can send it back. Get an Edwards for 1/3 the price
dern corporations.
-X
Sorry to hear about the big hassle. In the past several years, I've only bought Gibsons used locally, or new/used on Ebay (with detailed pics). Normally, they're the best guitars I own, with no flaws. I simply won't buy something if I can't see it, or at least see clear pictures. I'm leery of online retailers who use an advertisement picture, not the real one. I think Musicians Fiend is notorious for taking manufacturer's blem guitars and passing them along, hoping the sale sticks.
I guess my new mantra is quot;if I can't find it cheap on Ebay or Recycler.com, I don't need it.
Originally Posted by TattooedCarrotWhat do you think, is my gripe valid or am I being too much of a baby? Would would you're thoughts be if you were in my place?
To paraphrase something I saw in a recent issue of MPH magazine, this is unacceptable in the same way that you should not have to pay 75,000 for a high-end European car ( ) and see a mild distortion of the glass in the rear window.
I'd start looking into Heritage, Edwards, and ESP Eclipse-series stuff.
There is no bigger bummer than having someone that you love and trust kick you in the nuts, especially when they do it more than once. I'm sorry that it happened to you, TC.
I think that the best advice is to avoid the blind purchase and to go with the guitar that you can see and play. I know that it's not the most convenient thing, but I think that it beats going through all that they've put you through.
Again, I'm sorry that you've had to go through all of this. If I went through that, I would be insane and looking for Gibson exec's home addresses.
I feel for ya. The rumors I have heard is that there was a BIG turnover of employees in the Historic shop. From one of the shops around here said many of their familiar contacts just weren't there one day. I havn't heard anything about the USA gibson custom shop. The wood is also a problem. the 94-95 L.P's are coming with 2 piece backs. So I imagine that means wood is starting to be at a premium. I would go with G.J.s sugestion and not buy sight unseen.
Sorry man
return it ASAP...that is 100% pure bull s**t for a guitar of that cost!! i'm done with new gibsons, unless something amazing comes along or they go back to the way they once were along with real internet pics from small dealers (i doubt either will happen). my last studio i bought b/c i got a great deal on it but it has flaws that a gibson should not have...if they didn't knock the cash off i never would have bought it...but i was just looking for a player so i let it slide, even though it's BS!! so, unless it's used or i get a sick deal i'll be buying a PRS or having a one off custom Mirabella guitar built for my next high guitar purchase (after graduation when cash flow will be high)
-Mike
That is unsat! I have always loved Gibsons and I wouldn't trade my LP for anything. It bums me out to hear people spending there hard earned cash and get ripped off. It's not like you bought some 100 dollar cheappie.
Originally Posted by TattooedCarrotWhat do you think, is my gripe valid or am I being too much of a baby? What would your thoughts be if you were in my place?
I refuse to answer the second question on the grounds that it might incriminate me- murder is a capitol offense in most of the 48 contiguous states...
I was very pleased with the LP Jr I got from MF in 2003 for 500 (Gibson was discontinuing them... to introduce their crappy Melody Makers???) But the one in the local store had black paint from the neck splotched all over the fingerboard. Yech!
You might want to look into a Heritage H-535... they are the ex-employees from Gibson who bought the old guitar shop in Kalamazoo.
I replied to your thread on the Gear Page...LOL, I guess you're spreading the bad news on those tards @ Gibby!
Funny thing is, I did something similar with Warmoth awhile back amp; got totally different response.
I guess Gibby bad, Warmoth good!
I too, like you, have very hi expectations for my money and lo tolerance for slip-shod Q.C.
I've got pretty thick skin. I can put up with alot. I would be willing to buy either of those guitars used if they played well.
But for a brand new guitar that costs so much... well, I wouldn't like it!
slade
Originally Posted by Gary LaddI too, like you, have very hi expectations for my money and lo tolerance for slip-shod Q.C.
That's the odd thing, I usually don't have a critical eye, but these things just jumped out at me. In 5 seconds of opening the case I got no flame, handful of sawdust, and no paperwork. Then I was pissed and started looking, I bet a true critical eye would find even more wrong than I have.
Originally Posted by TattooedCarrotThat's the odd thing, I usually don't have a critical eye, but these things just jumped out at me. In 5 seconds of opening the case I got no flame, handful of sawdust, and no paperwork. Then I was pissed and started looking, I bet a true critical eye would find even more wrong than I have.
Maybe that's my problem...having worked for the first 16 years of my adult-life as a Quality/Design Engineer in Aerospace, with critical mission precision assemblies toleranced down to .00005 in some cases, I know what GOOD QC is...and most of the guitar companies today obviously don't.
What's more, with all the migrant day laborers floating around, you can betcha the MIA label means about as much as GIBSON PURE
I've got your GIBSON PURE right here:
Gary...you should have posted the pic of the real sign Gibson had up at first before they thought it was quot;too wordyquot;....
-Mike
Originally Posted by XSSIVEGary...you should have posted the pic of the real sign Gibson had up at first before they thought it was quot;too wordyquot;....
-Mike
Now that is a beautiful thing. It's just sad 'cause it's true.
Face it boys, Gibson is now in their CBS era. God willing, someday the company will be bought by a party who actually has a passion for making great guitars, and they will bring the quality back up, slash the prices, and start treating customers and dealers with respect. Until then, I will never buy a new Gibson (did I say never? I meant NEVER!!!!!). When it's all about cutting corners and jacking prices, I am all about exploring other options. I wish that everybody could see beyond the name on the headstock and look elsewhere. If their sales started to drop off significantly, they might change their corporate outlook.
Originally Posted by MikeRockerNow that is a beautiful thing. It's just sad 'cause it's true.
Face it boys, Gibson is now in their CBS era. God willing, someday the company will be bought by a party who actually has a passion for making great guitars, and they will bring the quality back up, slash the prices, and start treating customers and dealers with respect. Until then, I will never buy a new Gibson (did I say never? I meant NEVER!!!!!). When it's all about cutting corners and jacking prices, I am all about exploring other options. I wish that everybody could see beyond the name on the headstock and look elsewhere. If their sales started to drop off significantly, they might change their corporate outlook.
1 Sad but true.
TC, you're not being too picky, man. 2500 is ALOT of dough to spend on ANY guitar. There is absolutley no reason you should have to settle for anything less than perfect, especially from a company as big as Gibson. I think every guitar manufactuer has an obligation to their reputation and to their customer to sell only perfect instruments, regardless of the price.
Send it back. If you settle for it, Gibson wins and they'll keep putting out crappy merchandise. Return it and hopefully Gibson will wake up one day when they realize no one is buying their poor quality guitars.
Rite now my budget allows me to spend about 1000 on a guitar. I ordered a 800 martin from MF. I had to order 4 of them until I found one that was satisfactory to me. I'm very picky, no matter what the price was...
WoW...that scared the rootbeer paul out of me...LOL!!! i think i'm gonna make a trip down to Lexington Ky to Willcutt guitars and pick out a Paul in person...this story just reaffirmed that i should probably do that!
Originally Posted by HossWoW...that scared the rootbeer paul out of me...LOL!!! i think i'm gonna make a trip down to Lexington Ky to Willcutt guitars and pick out a Paul in person...this story just reaffirmed that i should probably do that!
If I'm spending 2000 on anything, I'd want to see it first.
Do not buy a new Gibson!
