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Hi there!

I've replaced all preamp tubes from my Engl Thunder 50 combo with Mesa Boogie 12ax7 tubes. The results are quite contradictory. Overall clearness and detail have improove but the tone it's a bit cold and empty.

Are this supposed to be great tubes or are there better options out there?

I recently replaced the stock Mesa 12AX7's in my bass amp with a pair of JJ's, and it made an incredible difference. Mesa tubes aren't all that great IMO.

While I understand that they have done some manufacturing, most Mesa and Groove Tubes valves are rebranded from other manufacturers.

Better tube options?

That is very subjective. What may sound good to you may not to me.

Are tubes hard to come by in Spain?

Generally, preamp tubes are a push-pull replacement, no adjustments to the amp required.
Find a dealer and buy a few JJ's, a few EH's, a few whatever you want, might even try a few NOS. V1, usually the furthest from the power tubes will have the most effect on your sound. V2, the next tube will have the next most effect. So if you buy a few of each tube, you can play around a bit.

Take some time, do a little reasearch, and formulate which tubes you want to buy by information on where each tube may take your sound.

It's fun, it's the way to do it. Well, it's my chosen way. Really.

Rather than just giving you my opinion, check this out:

thetubestore

Reviews, recommendations, and all kinds of other good stuff on the site.

Mesa tubes are rebranded sovtek russian tubes, I bought a Mesa 12ax7 to try out and I agree, very sterile sounding.
The GT 12ax7 M mullard reissue sounds really nice, at least in my two amps, A Marshall, and a Class A 20 watter.


Originally Posted by marvarMesa tubes are rebranded sovtek russian tubes

Yep, and if you look closely at light reflecting off the glass, you should be able to see the faint black sovtek labeling still on the tube. They're probably Sovtek 12ax7wa's.

Actually Mesa's preamp tubes are the sovtek second generation 12xa7 tube. At least that it is what says on the cover. As far as I know WA's are the first generation ones.
That kind of annoyes me because those are suposed to be great quality ones. Moreso Mesa Boogie lies a great part of it's tone in the preamp so the tubes should be top notch.

buuu-uhump!!

JJs all the way.


Originally Posted by Robert S.JJs all the way.

Are thoose supposed to give a warm overdrive tone from the preamp? Mesa's give you a tone that I would identificate with an distortion pedal, not an overdrive.

I receintly installed 16 JJs into the Mesa rack in my avatar so it's hard to say exactly where I'm getting the improvement in tone other than it is there. The JJs do sound warmer and more balanced overall. They have a rounder, more mid present tone as compared to the Mesa Sovtecks which I always found a bit bright and sterile sounding.

The tubes I got were these:

High gain preamp set with HO eec83s in V1, V2 and V4 with a std eec83 in V3 and a balanced eec83 in V5. Those all went into the Triaxis

The 2:90 received a matched octet of 6L6s with balanced eec83 drivers and a balanced eec83 inverter.

Some folks swear by balanced inverters and others claim they are not nessesary but in my stereo rig I can definately hear improved balance between the right and left channels. I'm sure the matched octet has something to do with that as well.

My clean channels (the Triaxis has 2 dedicated clean channels) are warmer and livelier with improved clarity. The high gain preamp tubes definately have more gain and if I lay into my clean channel it does tend to break up a little which is an improvement. If I dime the gain and lower the volume on my clean channel I get a seriously Voxish type of over-driven tone that is very brown and seriously to die for.

The Lead I tones (three individual channels) are tighter and gainier. The first two are different versions of the Mark I tone and they now sound incredible. I can channel Santanas ghost through the first two channels and he ain't even dead yet. These two channels now sing where they used to sound a bit ratty before. with the gain up they tighten up and round out instead of getting harsh and brittle. The sustain is unbelievable now. Those two channels do some serious singing now.

The lead I red (recto) is where I do most of my playing from and the improvements were staggering. The bottom end tightened up and thumps now where before it was a little splatty. The mids are solid without being honky and the top end is very agressive with maintianing a smoothness that I wasn't getting before. String to string definition has been greatly improved. This channel now screams bloody murder and one good chord slam shuts up a bar full of drunks in an instant. It really is a huge authoritative tone. I run the gain at 10 and the drive at 2 which gives me more of a master volume amp tone instead of the typical Mesa recto tone and it's very different from what most people expect from Mesa but very killer and unique sounding none-the-less. if I go back to the Mesa preset for this channel it's seriously Mesa Recto sounding all the way. Before it was somewhat lacking.

The biggest improvement was in the lead II channels. These are supposedly wired simular to the Mark II, III and IV amps. I always thought these were far too bright and brittle sounding and I didn't have alot of use for them. Now they are focused and nasty and searing is probably the best word to describe them. Instant Mettalica, In Living Colour or any other mark tones at the drop of a hat. The bottom end is very tight and may induce sterization if you stand too close, the mids and incredible and the top end could be used to etch glass with the focus and tightness the amp now gets.

Warmer, livelier, tighter, hotter, it's all there. I can't say enough good things about the JJs and they showed up at my front door in two days. Can't beat that.

The first thing I ever do when I get an amp home is fiddle for days with preamp tubes... sometimes JJs sound better, sometimes Russians, sometimes NOS GE tubes (I don´t care how the chinese ones sound for political /moral reasons)....

All depemds on the amp, the speakers, and the player.. most importantly the player´s EARS

Whow!! Robert S. that was great description!! thanks, I really apreciate it.

String to string separation it's not a problem in the clean channel althought the lead/crunch channels are a bit mushy. I am really concern about the mids in all the channels since they are quite flat and empty. I see this were improovements you did achieved when you swap to JJ hi gain tubes set. Because of that I think I am going to get one of thoose.

Another reason for the empty mids could be the speaker (Celestion Silver Series V12-80). Althoug the quality of this drive it isn't bad, it does the job, it is pretty standard and it isn't over the top. This could be the origin of the coldness in the mids.

Cerb, you are right... JJ may not be the solution but at least it looks like an option I should check.

Thanks!

Vastly better mids with the JJs.

Im running 90 watt Celestions in my 3/4 back cabs.

Robert S, Could you tell me where did you buy the mached hi gain set? I can find it

Thanks...


Originally Posted by BreoganRobert S, Could you tell me where did you buy the mached hi gain set? I can find it

Thanks...

had similiar results with JJ ECC83S pre-amp tubes in all my amps except for the Bassman. In the Bassman, I use EHs as the JJs were too dark. I'm not convinced that JJ power tubes sound right for me in 6L6 applications. The TADs (Tube Amp Doctor) and SEDs (Winged quot;Cquot; logo) have a smoother tone in the mids and highs to my ears. I do like JJ EL34s and EL84s though.

I don't see a complete re-tube kit for the Engl so go to the eurotubes webites and either email or call Bob direct and I'm sure he'll put one together for that amp.

Robert S. please post a close photo of that rack system.......i'm curious to see what's in there.................



From top to bottom:

Conditioner
Korg DTR-2 tuner
Patch bay - guitar in or wireless out to guitar in
Shure ULX-S Wireless with rack adapter and front side antenna kit
Triaxis Preamp
TC Electronics G Major
Rocktron IntelliPitch
BBE 482
Conditioner
space
2:90 power ampSometimes it's good to be me!

(but usually not)