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I've been listening to these discs back2back for the last day.
It seems that his tone on quot;Fresh Creamquot; has less mid-range attack. It's fuller and deeper. I especially love the solos in quot;Spoonfulquot; and quot;Sleepy Time Timequot;. Do you think he's playing through his neck pup, as it seems the tone is very bottom heavy. And how underrated is the solo in Sleepy? I heard that he was amazing playing it at the recent MSG shows.

What more can be said about quot;Beanoquot; (other than how bad Mayall's voice is!).
It seems EC's tone on this album definitely bites more with a mid-focus. Did we every find out whether he was using Alnico II's or V's? And do you think this tone (or Fresh Cream's) is attainable with an SG? I figure if you get Duncan '59's and raise the bridge pup you might be in the ballpark. Another idea I had was that the Seth Lover might deliver, but it seems that alot of people feel this Alnico type won't work well in an SG.

The tone on the Beano album is Clapton playing a LP through a Marshall 2x12 Bluesbreaker combo with more than likely a Dallas Rangemaster boost in front of that cranked up amp...

The Cream era stuff was all about Plexi 100 watt 1959 model Marshalls with either his LP(That got stolen)SG,Firebird, and a 335...Lew has a great theory about Eric's pickups and whether he used A2 and A5...Probably both!

Eric told people that he'd roll the tone control almost all the way off on his bridge pickup to get the quot;woman tonequot;....Maybe his live Cream tone was just his wah through his cranked up stacks of Marshalls,though it sounds like he used either a fuzz or a treble boost on some of the studio cuts with Cream?

You're looking at two completely different amps. For Beano, he was using the second generation Marshall 2x12 combo, with an open backed cab. Fresh Cream had him using at least a half stack, sometimes a full stack, with sealed back cabs. That'll account for a lot of the difference. Both albums were done with Les Pauls instead of the SG. I think Clapton recorded a lot of Fresh Cream straight into the amp, the Beano album has that Dallas Rangemaster treble booster on it. I think that's also the same effect you hear on the in the solo section of like Strange Brew, and White Room.


Originally Posted by STRATDELUXER97
Eric told people that he'd roll the tone control almost all the way off on his bridge pickup to get the quot;woman tonequot;....I thought he would roll the tone off the neck pup for the quot;woman tonequot;?

If you watch the quot;Cream Farewell Concertquot; from the Royal Albert Hall Nov 26 1968 there is an interview section where Eric explains the Woman tone and he says that he uses either the bridge or the neck pickup to make the woman tone.


Originally Posted by jonnymangiaI thought he would roll the tone off the neck pup for the quot;woman tonequot;?

He probably used both, but primarily teh Bridge pup. The neck gives you a more pronounced effect.

John is right on the money about the difference in tone being due to the change in amps. Plus Eric had progressed as a guitar player with his own style (which I wish he would go back to ).

I hear the pickups in the Les Paul on Fresh Cream as being alnico 2 pafs through a Marshall 100 watt plexi through one or two 4 x 12 Marshall cabs with ceramic magnet Celestions.

I hear the pickups in the Les Paul on John Mayall and the Bluesbreakers as being alnico 4 or 5 (probably 5) through a Marshall 2 x 12 combo amp, probably with Celestion G12 alnico speakers turned way up.

I hear the pickups in the SG used on Disrali Gears as being alnico 5, again through a Marshall 100 watt plexi with ceramic magnet Celestion speakers.

The tone on Fresh Cream is smoother, has more mids, and has that cool singing pluck to the tone. Listen to the tone of the solo on I Feel Free and Sleepy Time Time...that sure sounds like an alnico 2 paf to me. Lots of smooth, buttery, chewy caramel-like mids.

Lew

I think Clapton went through the low input, hence, the darker tone.

Speaking strictly tone ... I would give 1st prize to Beano. Although both par excellence


Originally Posted by TrilogyI think Clapton went through the low input, hence, the darker tone.

Speaking strictly tone ... I would give 1st prize to Beano. Although both par excellence

I dunno about the low input...doesn't sound like that to me. But maybe...

I've always liked Clapton's tone with Cream better than his tone with John Mayall. To me, that's the tone that redefined Rock Guitar and players to this day are still trying to get this sound...well, at least Eric Johnson is!

It's the tone that inpired Eddie Van Halen and many others.

I love the John Mayall stuff, don't get me wrong. Matter of fact, that CD is playing right now here in the store.

But I like the tone Clapton got on the first two studio Cream albums and on Wheels of Fire best of all. That tone on the live version of Crossroads is just revolutionary!

Sounds like rubber...kind of stretchy and elastic.

Lew

I tend to lean towards the early Cream stuff as being better. But I don't feel it has as much to do with gear than Erics progression as a guitar player. He could have been playing thru anything and it would have sounded great! The Mayall stuff I feel is more raw than anything he has done. The Cream stuff espicially Fresh Cream you can begin to hear him polishing his sound. He was definately doing a lot of woodshedding in that era. As far as I can remember reading I thought the guitars from the Beano record and Fresh Cream was the same guitar a 1960 Les Paul Standard that was stolen after one of Creams early GIGS. Who knows.... Whatever it was it was pretty spectacular!


Originally Posted by BludaveI tend to lean towards the early Cream stuff as being better. But I don't feel it has as much to do with gear than Erics progression as a guitar player. He could have been playing thru anything and it would have sounded great! The Mayall stuff I feel is more raw than anything he has done. The Cream stuff espicially Fresh Cream you can begin to hear him polishing his sound. He was definately doing a lot of woodshedding in that era. As far as I can remember reading I thought the guitars from the Beano record and Fresh Cream was the same guitar a 1960 Les Paul Standard that was stolen after one of Creams early GIGS. Who knows.... Whatever it was it was pretty spectacular!

Exactly!

Bludave nailed it!

I kinda like the Beano tone - it sounds like you're sitting in a club, and they're playing live - because, that's basically how they recorded ... they took the well worn club set into the studio, cranked the instruments, and recorded live.
I don't know how long it took, but it wasn't long.

Fresh Cream definitely sounds like a studio recording - more ambience and room reverb.


Originally Posted by Lewguitar
The tone on Fresh Cream is smoother, has more mids, and has that cool singing pluck to the tone. Listen to the tone of the solo on I Feel Free and Sleepy Time Time...that sure sounds like an alnico 2 paf to me. Lots of smooth, buttery, chewy caramel-like mids.

Lew

Lew, I love the description of EC's quot;Fresh Creamquot; tone. I'm getting hungry for those mids! Do you think an SG is capable of pulling off that smooth, buttery, chewy tone we hear on Sleepy Sleepy Time? I'm trying to nail it with my SG Standard and dual 59's but I've heard others say that Seth Lover's are quot;smootherquot;. Maybe that's the ticket?
And re: quot;Wheels of Firequot;...is that the SG, 335 or Firebird?


Originally Posted by jonnymangiaLew, I love the description of EC's quot;Fresh Creamquot; tone. I'm getting hungry for those mids! Do you think an SG is capable of pulling off that smooth, buttery, chewy tone we hear on Sleepy Sleepy Time? I'm trying to nail it with my SG Standard and dual 59's but I've heard others say that Seth Lover's are quot;smootherquot;. Maybe that's the ticket?
And re: quot;Wheels of Firequot;...is that the SG, 335 or Firebird?

The 59's will do that tone beautifully, but an alnico 2 pickup like the Seth (with the nickel cover removed) through a Marshall will NAIL it. The alnico 2 will have more mids and less of the tanky hollow slightly metallic honk of the 59's. I love 'em both and use them both. But the 59's remind me more of Clapton's Wheels of Fire tone. I think Clapton had the nickel covers off of his pafs, BTW. That'll add some sizzle to the tone of a pickup like the alnico 2 Seth Lover...or the alnico 5 '59. He and Jeff Beck were the two guys who I first heard of removing the covers to get a little more prescence or sizzle. Just a slightly more aggressive tone than with the covers on. On Wheels of Fire, I think that SG did have the covers though...they were painted up along with the rest of the guitar if I remember right. But the way I hear it, the '59 has the tone of the early 60's pickups in Clapton's SG and the '60 Les Paul he used with John Mayall. The Seth Lover is closer to the tone of the '58 Les Paul on Fresh Cream...but he probably had the covers removed. (maybe not...)

Lew

Some links about Clapton's guitars:

from : localhost/one in particular is good:

from : localhost/twtd.bluemountains.net.au/cream/Guitars.htm


Originally Posted by LewguitarThe 59's will do that tone beautifully, but an alnico 2 pickup like the Seth (with the nickel cover removed) through a Marshall will NAIL it.

Lew

Since the SG is thinner than a LP I was afraid that the Seths would sound too shrill, as I recall someone posting on the board that Seths sounded thin in an SG, esepcially in the bridge. I am nuts for that fat, buttery tone, so maybe I should try the Seths in the SG... I'll raise the bridge pup close under the strings to try and warm it up even more.


Originally Posted by jonnymangiaSince the SG is thinner than a LP I was afraid that the Seths would sound too shrill, as I recall someone posting on the board that Seths sounded thin in an SG, esepcially in the bridge. I am nuts for that fat, buttery tone, so maybe I should try the Seths in the SG... I'll raise the bridge pup close under the strings to try and warm it up even more.Either the '59's, as Lew said, or the Seths will work fine. I've had Seths in my LP/SG reissue for a while and love them. They're not shrill at all. Very warm and midranging. Pretty close to Clapton's tone at Cream's peak (March of 1968).

Dave,

That was an excellent analysis of Clapton;s tone. Great job!

I would add, that the LP Custom was used on the Fresh Cream album, along with the '60 LP


Originally Posted by jonnymangiaLew, I love the description of EC's quot;Fresh Creamquot; tone. I'm getting hungry for those mids! Do you think an SG is capable of pulling off that smooth, buttery, chewy tone we hear on Sleepy Sleepy Time? I'm trying to nail it with my SG Standard and dual 59's but I've heard others say that Seth Lover's are quot;smootherquot;. Maybe that's the ticket?
And re: quot;Wheels of Firequot;...is that the SG, 335 or Firebird?Wheels of Fire was a combination of Studio and Live recordings. Crossroads was the 335 as well as the rest of the live stuff. The studio I am pretty certain that it was the SG. But as I said before it really wouldn't have mattered. He just had it dialed in then. Not to say that he doesn't play great still. I just think he played with a lot more agression back then. Technically I think he plays better now but the Fire of his youth is what I think is most different about his playing!


Originally Posted by BludaveWheels of Fire was a combination of Studio and Live recordings. Crossroads was the 335 as well as the rest of the live stuff. The studio I am pretty certain that it was the SG. But as I said before it really wouldn't have mattered. He just had it dialed in then. Not to say that he doesn't play great still. I just think he played with a lot more agression back then. Technically I think he plays better now but the Fire of his youth is what I think is most different about his playing!Dave, I know that since the Gibson/Clapton 335 reissue came out Eric's been saying that the 335 was used for Crossroads, but I don;t think he started using that until after the Fillmore/Winterland shows that were used for quot;Wheels of FIrequot;. If you watch the quot;Fresh Live Creamquot; video and the quot;Farewellquot; DVD where he's playing the SG, it's the identical tone to the quot;Wheelsquot; live stuff. The 335 tone on the quot;Farewellquot; DVD is much thinner sounding.

(Believe me, I've obsessed over that tone since I was a teenager...LOL).

Jeff