software

I've noticed that a lot of people have made comments with ambiguous references to DiMarzio's quot;questionable business practices,quot; but I've yet to come across a thread that details what those practices are.

The only thing I know of is the fact that DiMarzio patented the double-creme bobbins, but come on, is that all? Doesn't seem like a big deal to me. There's got to be more going on if there's such a strong general sentiment about them.

Somebody clue me in?

I have nothing bad to say about dimarzio, all i've ever heard in my experience is good. I actually prefer their pickups to duncans i think.

They're a great company, who make great products, and have a great reputation.

It's just brand loyalty. Same kind of thing that prompts Chevy pickup truck drivers to put that decal of a little guy peeing on a Ford emblem in thier rear window...or Ford pickup truck drivers to put that same little guy peeing on a Chevy emblem.

That said: I prefer Duncans to the Dimarzios I've owned too.

There's also a little bad feeling over Dimarzio not allowing other pickup makers to use exposed double cream coils in thier humbuckers. Dimarzio didn't think of that...they only registered it first. Gibson was making double cream humbuckers (underneath the nickel pickup covers) in the 50's!

Lew

That's like saying someone stealing something out of your house thats of minor value isn't a big deal. No, the practise itself isn't, but the principle is. Besides, many people want double creme anyway.

I've also read that DMZ pickups aren't as good quality construction wise as SD pickups.


Originally Posted by RainmakerThat's like saying someone stealing something out of your house thats of minor value isn't a big deal. No, the practise itself isn't, but the principle is. Besides, many people want double creme anyway.

I've also read that DMZ pickups aren't as good quality construction wise as SD pickups.

DiMarzio registering double-cream bobbins = stealing?

Please explain.

As far as construction quality, you're going to have to supply a little more information than a quot;read it somewhere one timequot; scenario. I started this thread in an attempt to get the straight dope here. I've owned both DMZ's and Duncans at different times and never noticed any difference whatsoever in construction quality.

I'm keeping an open mind - I'm not some closet DMZ schill trying to start a quot;which is betterquot; discussion. I just want to know where the hostility comes from so I can form my own opinion.


Originally Posted by RainmakerI've also read that DMZ pickups aren't as good quality construction wise as SD pickups.
The double-cream thing I understand somewhat but this is just complete BS.This is just another internet rumor. Has anyone actually had a pickup fail on them due to quot;constructionquot;?? I've been using both Duncans and Dimarzios for YEARS and have NEVER had a problem with either of them.Come on now.....

Look up information on a DiMarzio vs. Kinman lawsuit. DiMarzio basically reverse engineered some of Kinman's designs, and then got a patent on them before he could and made it so he couldn't distribute from inside the U.S. If you want them you have to import them from Australia I think? Pretty nasty happenings.

As far as the double cream bobbins, it's mainly an annoyance. DiMarzio claimed that people might confuse other double cream 'buckers for their product based on that color scheme (when all they'd need to do is slap a brand logo on the pickup). They have been taken to court SEVERAL times and been beaten, but they have deeper pockets so they can just start up an appeal and carry on. The company just seems to care more about the money than their customers.

That said, I do like a few of their pickups, but I will only buy them used.


Originally Posted by ranalliThe double-cream thing I understand somewhat but this is just complete BS.This is just another internet rumor. Has anyone actually had a pickup fail on them due to quot;constructionquot;?? I've been using both Duncans and Dimarzios for YEARS and have NEVER had a problem with either of them.Come on now.....

Not fail necessarily, but I have spoken with people that have taken a DiMarzio apart and said the build quality was pretty lacking compared to other brands. PM member 9finger and he can tell you about his experience with an X2N and a Super 3.

Oh yeah, they've also trademarked double quot;mirrorquot; bobbins now. Basically any shiny metallic color.

Never owned one of their pups and never will until they release the double cream paten. That is all it takes for me, that is complete bull. Its the principle.


Originally Posted by FretFireNot fail necessarily, but I have spoken with people that have taken a DiMarzio apart and said the build quality was pretty lacking compared to other brands. PM member 9finger and he can tell you about his experience with an X2N and a Super 3.
How can one judge build quality when it does EXACTLY as it's designed??Unless something goes WRONG with them then build quality is not an issue.


Originally Posted by ranalliHow can one judge build quality when it does EXACTLY as it's designed?When the components used to make the pickup are of poor quality...


Originally Posted by ranalliThe double-cream thing I understand somewhat but this is just complete BS.

Come on now.....

First let me say that this is not a flame on DiMarzio. They aren't here to defend themselves (are they?). This is just my opinion.

I have personally played many DiMarzio pickups, including full sized humbuckers, humbucker stacks and single coils.

After having tried many brands of pickups, I find that Duncans, as a GENERAL rule, are more pleasing to me. I guess even though there are many different models, some people just hear things the same way. I like how the pickups sound. I guess the engineer knows what he's doing...

I don't like the DiMarzio pickups that I've tried for the most part, but that doesn't constitute hating them. What I dislike about them is more than just the sound though. I'm sorry, but I do feel that they are not as hearty a pickup in construction as the Duncans. This comes into play if you've worked on you pickups (like replacing wires, etc) and then repotting them in wax. In my experience, in general they don't reject microphonics as well, either, which can be a big deal if you play high gain music. This is based on personal experience not anything I've heard here or elsewhere.

Patenting a COLOR is what I'd call a dubious practice. It's obvioulsy not against the law, but that doesn't make it okay. If you want to sell pickups, just make them sound good.

Of course this is all just my 2 cents worth, YMMV.

Mark

I heard that they patented the use of mis-matched coils too, so if you want to have mis-matched coils on a DUncan you gotta either do it yourself or splash out for a CS bucker, that sucks.

And the double cream thing just baffles me (how they managed to patent it, that is).

I have no issues with the pickups though.


Originally Posted by rinse_masterI heard that they patented the use of mis-matched coils too, so if you want to have mis-matched coils on a DUncan you gotta either do it yourself or splash out for a CS bucker, that sucks.I've heard that before, but I'm not sure if it's true. Don't the Pearly Gates have mismatched coils?

I won't say I hate their pickups, because I've only played a few (and wasn't impressed). I've favored Duncans because they seem to meet my taste in tone beautifully.

My only objection to DiMarzio started back in 1993 I think. When, after laying off the guitar for about 15 years, I started playing again and decided to explore changing pups in a '72 Strat I had. My brother suggested DiMarzio, so I gave them a call to find out which of their pups would get the tone I wanted. I think I spoke to someone high up in the ranks, maybe even Larry himself...well the bottom line was, I got such a rude and impatient response from the Ahole that I said to myself..quot;F-him and his pups!quot;. I've never ventured into DiMarzio territory since.

The PG does have mismatched coils.


Originally Posted by NathanCahillThe PG does have mismatched coils.

Interesting, could be they were allowed to do it because they were re-makes of BG's pups though?...

I agree with the truck comparision-I'm also an aviation fanatic and I think a lot of this is similar to the Airbus vs Boeing treads that alway amaze me-

Just bought a JB, cruiser, and cool rails-
JB tape isn't even (some wire exposed)
CR is old style

Had an EE guitar buddy of mine come check wiring on a mod I just completed and both of us were amazed at the quality of the cruiser- circuit board base, entirely enclosed and looks much better quality than the old style CR (hence the repackaging of the CR)-

But the bottom line is all 3 are excelent pups from a sound POV- The cruiser turned out to be exactly what I needed in mid position, JB is great for bridge and unfortuately the CR is too hot for my set up, but it's still clear that it's an excellent pup-

I've got Joe Bardens in another guitar and it's my favorite of all- Have used Bill Lawrence with sucess and if I ever do regular single coils I will use Frahlins- Each has it's strenghts and weaknesses-

Keep in mind that marketing is designed to foster blind brand loyalty- Don't let them get you


Originally Posted by JeffrecI won't say I hate their pickups, because I've only played a few (and wasn't impressed). I've favored Duncans because they seem to meet my taste in tone beautifully.

My only objection to DiMarzio started back in 1993 I think. When, after laying off the guitar for about 15 years, I started playing again and decided to explore changing pups in a '72 Strat I had. My brother suggested DiMarzio, so I gave them a call to find out which of their pups would get the tone I wanted. I think I spoke to someone high up in the ranks, maybe even Larry himself...well the bottom line was, I got such a rude and impatient response from the Ahole that I said to myself..quot;F-him and his pups!quot;. I've never ventured into DiMarzio territory since.

I don’t use DiMarzio for three reasons:

1.I simply prefer the sound of Duncan pickups. There are a couple of DiMarzio models I like, but not nearly as much as my Duncans.

2.The double cream issue annoys me. Why doesn’t Gibson go after DiMarzio regarding the double cream issue?? Since Gibson was the company that introduced the humbucker, wouldn’t they want to go after DiMarzio? Gibson would certainly seem to have the funds to win the case and shut down DiMarzio’s “patent” for good.

3.Most important (similar situation to the quote above), TERRIBLE customer service. I have dealt with a DiMarzio “big shot” a couple of times and on both occasions he was unjustifiably the biggest ****** bag I have ever met (his initials are SB and he designed the X2N). I had the “nerve” to ask about the magnet type in one model, and what kind of sound could I expect from a Super 3 in a Les Paul. Wow, really unreasonable questions right? He was such an arrogant, condescending f**king a**hole in his response that I will NEVER buy a DiMarzio product, new or used, ever again. And if he happens to see this (or if I ever see him again), I would cordially invite him to shove an X2N up his arse, sideways!

In contrast, I have met Seymour himself on several occasions and he was incredibly friendly, generous (gave me a free pickup just to see what I thought of it) and helpful every time, plus he makes better pickups, IMO.

Cheers,

CJ