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Guys,

I have been trying to get that fat, hot and nasty ZZ Top/Texas Blues sound from my SG Standard and have been left nothing but frustrated. The guitar just sounds too thin. I have switched my pickups several times - I just installed a '59 Bridge and Pearly Gates Neck which I am playing through a Marshall AVT20 amp. Still, I can't get near that tone. Even when I try to do a Sabbath thing with heavier riffing and higher gain it still sounds too thin.

Should I just sell this guitar and get a Paul? Or could it be the amp? I can't play at high volumes b/c I live in an apt. Or maybe I'm not using the right settings on the tone/vol knobs or amp
Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks.
Jonny

SG's are the only guitar that can do what they do, but it is a very specific tone. Pete Townshend/Angus Young style raunchiness is what they do. Personally I think Les Pauls handle more types of music.... maybe want to try a Les Paul Classic with a Pearly Gates set?

With the right amp (an all tube Marshall cranked up to quot;patent applied forquot; or something similar...) and appropriate playing chops, your SG should sound about like Eric Clapton's SG when he played with Cream. That is not a thin tone and it's the tone that inspired Billy Gibbons, Eddie Van Halen and jillions of others, including Tommy Iommi. I don't think the quot;thinquot; tone is the fault of the 59B. Good luck...and turn it up! Lew

Once again, I agree with Lew.

Unless you didn't get a good piece of mahogany, you should get nice thick tone from it. I've got a set of Seths in mine and it's really versatile.

Jeff

I'd say the amp is the cause of the thin sound. You'll be hard pressed to get much fullness out of a ss amp (I know the AVTs are actually hybrids, but the power section is still ss) connected to a single 10quot; speaker.

There are 100s of examples of fat sounding SGs, including the ones mentioned in this thread. Add to that a 59b, and I'd doubt it's the guitar that is thin. Do you ever have the opportunity to plug into a different amp?

This is what I would do to get a Rev tone from you SG. Change our your tone controls to .022 paper-in-oil caps. These will give you that thick, midrangy honk when you roll them down. They are also the key to the quot;woman tonequot;. If fact a whole rewire to 50's specs might be what you need. This involves chaging the pots to 500's which are britter, but with the .022 tone caps will give you losts of versitility. And Seth Lovers are way closer to Billy Gibbon classic PAF tone than the 59' and PG. (which BTW are great pups in there own right.)
MCG

I wouldn't bother swapping out pots and caps before trying it out through a couple of decent amps.

How you set your EQ can have a lot to do with it as well. Less gain and more mids will help.


Originally Posted by The Golden BoyI wouldn't bother swapping out pots and caps before trying it out through a couple of decent amps.

I agree. But do try raising your bridge pickup closer to the strings. I set the two E string polepieces even with the top of the bobbin and the middle four in an arch that matches the arch of the fingerboard.

Then hold the strings down at the highest fret and adjust the whole pickup up so it's about 1/16quot; away under the high E string and maybe 1/8quot; away under the low E. Start with that and then adjust to taste...

Lew


Originally Posted by MikeSI'd say the amp is the cause of the thin sound. You'll be hard pressed to get much fullness out of a ss amp (I know the AVTs are actually hybrids, but the power section is still ss) connected to a single 10quot; speaker. 1 my bet is definately on that amp being the problem

YOu have a really nice guitar......... Now get a really nice Amp. Try a MArshall 900.. Thats what Billy Gibbons used on the Recycler tour. I loved that tone. Tubes are what you need not a new guitar

First off, I want to thank you all for replying. This forum is amazing...

Unfortunately I have not had the opportunity to plug into another amp. I know the AVT's are the pits compared to the other Marshalls and I wouldn't be surprised if the amp has a lot to do with it. I also can't crank it b/c I live in an APT. I know Lew mentioned that Clapton got some of his best tones via diming the Marshalls, but I just can't do that till I move!

I'm surprised to hear that one of you mentioned Seth Lovers as a pup most similar to the Reverend's tone. I always thought the Seth was quot;warm and smoothquot;, which I don't equate with the Rev's tone, circa quot;ZZ Top's First Albumquot;.

What I'm going to do is take some pics of the SG tonight so you guys can look at the pup heights and such. I'm also interested in getting more info on the caps and pots alterations. I am convinced this guitar can be a fat, snarling blues/hard rock machine. It's just going to take some work.

[QUOTE=jonnymangia]First off, I want to thank you all for replying. This forum is amazing...

I'm surprised to hear that one of you mentioned Seth Lovers as a pup most similar to the Reverend's tone. I always thought the Seth was quot;warm and smoothquot;, which I don't equate with the Rev's tone, circa quot;ZZ Top's First Albumquot;.
QUOTE]Glad to help.

Seths are warm and smooth, but also have an initial bite to them that can be used effectively to get Billy G's tone. It's a great, multi-purpose PAF. The '59's are also great.

I agree with Dave, a good tube amp will do the trick. If you can't afford the Marshalls, try Crate, Fender, or Peavey. All have great tube tone for less $$$

Jeff


Originally Posted by jonnymangiaFirst off, I want to thank you all for replying. This forum is amazing...

Unfortunately I have not had the opportunity to plug into another amp. I know the AVT's are the pits compared to the other Marshalls and I wouldn't be surprised if the amp has a lot to do with it. I also can't crank it b/c I live in an APT. I know Lew mentioned that Clapton got some of his best tones via diming the Marshalls, but I just can't do that till I move!

I'm surprised to hear that one of you mentioned Seth Lovers as a pup most similar to the Reverend's tone. I always thought the Seth was quot;warm and smoothquot;, which I don't equate with the Rev's tone, circa quot;ZZ Top's First Albumquot;.

What I'm going to do is take some pics of the SG tonight so you guys can look at the pup heights and such. I'm also interested in getting more info on the caps and pots alterations. I am convinced this guitar can be a fat, snarling blues/hard rock machine. It's just going to take some work.

Hey Johnny, Everything you just said indicates to me that your guitar already IS a fat, snarling blues/hard rock machine. But a cranked tube amp is responsible for at least half of the tone you are searching for. In your case, you need a great tube amp and you need to be able to turn it up. Trust me. Your guitar is fine...you need a great amp now and you need room to turn it up. You just cannot get the tone you are after playing at bedroom apartment sound levels through a little solid state amp. Lew


Originally Posted by jonnymangiaUnfortunately I have not had the opportunity to plug into another amp.

Your local Guitar Center should have a loud room and a Marshall 1987/1959 non-master volume reissue. Turn the volume up to 6-8 and see if that's closer to the sound you want.

I struggled getting a tone I was happy with for a year and a half with my SG. The process included numerous pup changes. I ended up selling it and couldn't be happier.


Originally Posted by MikeSI'd say the amp is the cause of the thin sound. You'll be hard pressed to get much fullness out of a ss amp (I know the AVTs are actually hybrids, but the power section is still ss) connected to a single 10quot; speaker.

One measly 10-inch speaker? There's your problem. For beef you need a 12quot; speaker, preferably more than one.


Originally Posted by Slash2987SG's are the only guitar that can do what they do, but it is a very specific tone. Pete Townshend/Angus Young style raunchiness is what they do. Personally I think Les Pauls handle more types of music.... maybe want to try a Les Paul Classic with a Pearly Gates set?

Townshend/Young?
Cough TONY IOMMI cough HEAVIEST IN THE 70'S cough..
..still heavy today..

Townshend's SG had single coils (P90's).

I tried EVERYTHING under the sun to get my SG ('67 std) to sound good. I tried to get a biting edgy sound (flying V) I tried to get a thick L. Paul sound, nothing worked.

Now I know why so few people play SG's ...

Btw, I was palying (at the time) out of a '70 SL through a '71Marshall cab, so I know it wasn't the amp.