software

i have decided to learn a bit of theory and my first step is to learn the notes on my fretboard. just wondering if anybody has some insight as to why the inlays are where they are. for instance in actual playing they sometimes hurt me not help me. an example would be playing from the 8th fret to the 13th fret (or a 4th up). my eye is trained that a 4th should go from a non inlay fret to an inlay fret or vice versa. yet here that will not work since the quot;Fquot; fret does not have a n inlay. furthermonre the 12th fret has an inlay thought it is an even fret...
now i know 12 is the octave but....overall i don't see the method with the fret markers...3 5 7 9 ok i get that, its the odd frets with markings. but how come no marker at 1 11 and 13? I know there must be some reason for the layout of the inlays....please enlighten me. thank you.

I'm just guessing but heres my thoughts. There isen't one on the first fret probably because it's etremely obvious where it is. The inlay on the 12th fret is usally a double dot or something differnt to make it stand out from the other inlays. The reason i for the 12th and not the 11th and 13th being marked is because of it being the octave and personally it breaks things up and makes it easier to know where I am an the fret board.

I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say esthetics at first and then it just became common place.
It may be that way back it was based on commonly used notes,but that's all just geussing.

There is a real historical musical reason for this, but I can't remember it off the top of my head. Hopefully someone else knows. I do know that the double dot represents one octave from the open string.

Again, I'm sure someone on here knows the official answer, and I am interested in learning it.

Pentatonic scale IIRC

Since every modern guitar is a reworking of the gut stringed classical, it is probably just tradition seeing as the classical guitar's neck joins the body at the 12th fret. Granted, classicals traditionally have no inlays on the plane of the fretboard, but they will have dot inlays on the side of their necks. I have seen guitars with inlays at the first fret position.


Originally Posted by ZerberusPentatonic scale IIRC

Looking at the fretboard, that makes sense-- but is that the original intent?

You can just as easily say that it was designed for the convenient management of I, IV, V chord progressions.


Originally Posted by Boston JoeLooking at the fretboard, that makes sense-- but is that the original intent?

If my history serves me right,a long time ago a ruler decided that they hated disonnant notes and demanded that people not use the tritone,(thus the pentatonic scale).
It would stand to reason,(when you consider the depth that most rulers would go to exert their will),that the ruler then demanded that all court instruments have the quot;acceptablequot; pattern included in all court instruments.
And then the nobles would make the same request and so on and so on,(as Georges Dante once said quot;..the masses are ignorant and therefore must be ledquot;..).
The classical guitar doesn't have these marking's-true.But,the classical guitar,(especially the design that we know today),is most often associated with Spanish gypsy music.The standard European 'guitar',(I forget the exact name),was an elongegated shape,(pardon my spelling),and were ornate;especially in the courts.
Given that most of the original steel string builders were classically trained violin and mandolin makers that were expanding on the Des Torres design,(or at least the design most often attributed to Des Torres),it would make sense that they combined the two ideas.
And now that would be considered standard.
I'm just making geusses based on assumption following history.
I would have to dig for names,dates and documented facts,(for that I would have to ask - WHY????),but to my understanding that would make sense.
Again,a lot of guessing there.

well if you're going to mark the 12th fret, i wouldnt mark the 11th or 13th. although with that thought if i was going to mark the 12th fret i'd go all even frets.

inlays fret markers are so freaking annoying~ they slowed me down a lot untill i could afford my custom guitar ( no inlays / fret markers ) im doing okay now =)

Well I would guess that the frets are marked by mathematical division (harmonics of a standing wave). The 12th fret marks the midway point between the nut and bridge (halving the wavelength of a standing wave doubles the frequency; produces a tone an octave higher). Like that, there are major harmonics at the 5th and 7th frets. It seems weird to put markers at all even frets, plus the 5th and 7th, so I guess makers decided the thing that was most pleasing to the eye was to put markers at all the odd frets (minus the 11th and 13th, because they are right next to the 12th) and the 12th.

If you assign the number 1 to all of the markers on the fretboard and add them up, then multiply by the number of frets, and then divide by 6 if there are 6 inline tuners, and by 3 if it's a 3x3 configuration, and take the square root of that number....you will always come up with Pi.

It's simple mathmatics really.

Here's the really wild part... I prefer dotless boards because of a) The look of it b) not having a guide makes it easier to think quot;outside the boxquot; for me.


Originally Posted by Boston JoeLooking at the fretboard, that makes sense-- but is that the original intent?

I know for a fact that its some scale, but I just can´t remember which one exactly or find my notes.....

But Johnjohn actually isn´t too far off, a good logical mind is a powerful thing


Originally Posted by Zerberus

a good logical mind is a powerful thing

Cool,can I borrow your's?

im more confused then ever but i too wonder if not having all these markings would eventutally help one think outside the box and actually learn the fretboard better.

I love inlays! I love the look and the ease that comes frome knowing they're there.

I know the first fret doesn't have an inlay on most guitars because it is considered frivolous, that's why only the most expensive guitars have ever had inlays on the first fret. (LP customs, 355s, Doves, certain Gretches).

The reason of their placement (I have always thought) was simply to denote 2 half steps, until the 11th fret, then they inlaid again for the octave, and resumed in the same pattern, (unless you have a guitar with a 1rst fret inlay)

I could be way off base though.

As far as rulers not liking dissonance, if I remember my music history it was believed that the devil/s notes were the dissonant chord voicings.

Luke

I like Jeff's answer.


Originally Posted by Luke DukeAs far as rulers not liking dissonance, if I remember my music history it was believed that the devil/s notes were the dissonant chord voicings.Luke

Bing-that man gets a wowey pop.I knew we were forgetting something.Thanks Luke.

This whole thread has gotten me thinking of the origins of the guitar,(as we know it today).
Although it is often associated as an American creation,it really isn't.It's just an amalgamation of ideas.
Now before any of you flag wavers prop up your soap boxes this isn't meant as a shot or jibe,(that means a poke at someone),this is just observation.
I've heard it said that music and mathmatics are universal languages.
The guitar really can be seen as a global effort.
Derived from ancient times an hybrid of ideas is applied in the new world to re-invent an instrument that went on to spawn an international industry.
And yet is still viewed as a personal object.Each item selected and altered,(IMO-friends don't let friends play stock .), then adjusted and used to the individuals taste.
As dumb as this is gonna sound,(though I could personally care less),it only reinforces my love of the instrument.
Now if I could only figure out how to make the damn thing sound good.......

What a great thread,amazing how something so accepted as inlay dots can get the melon churning.


Originally Posted by JohnJohn[...]
This whole thread has gotten me thinking of the origins of the guitar,(as we know it today).
Although it is often associated as an American creation,it really isn't.It's just an amalgamation of ideas.
Now before any of you flag wavers prop up your soap boxes this isn't meant as a shot or jibe,(that means a poke at someone),this is just observation.
[...]

Well, until now I thought the origins of the guitar as we know it today, were quite clear. Not for enjoyment, Gibson has even got an entire line of electric guitars with the name 'ES' (Electric Spanish).

Traditionally the Gibson Company was aimed at building Spanish type guitars, Mandolins an other instruments.

The origin of the modern American guitar ( acoustic and electric ) is the Spanish Guitar, not the medieval European. A different or additional thing is that they have taken ideas from other instruments form other parts of the World.

Wait a moment.

...I'm waving a flag!