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I've been planning for next year and I could be in for a bigger purchase. I've been thinking of updating my amp selection, I currently have a Boss GT-3, a Laney TF-300, a Line6 PodXT and a Marshall JCM800, I guess that it's the 2205 model. When at home, I either run straight into the Pod or through that to the Laney. When training, I either use the boss/laney setup or straight to the Marshall. I'm not really 100% keen on any of the tones I'm getting now.

I've been looking at a new amp or a rack system that I'd start building. I've been mainly looking at VHT, although I don't really have that much real-life experience on them. In northern Finland, you do not have real-life experience. Real life experience is at least 500 miles away! So I'm in quite a tight spot.

The MAP here on VHT Pittbull 50/cl head is 1600#8364;, the 2/90/2 poweramp goes for 1300#8364; and the GP-3 preamp goes for the same. The VHT UL goes for 2800#8364;.

Should I go for the Pittbull or buy the poweramp now, then use the Pod as a preamp until I find the best possible preamp? Maybe by some other manufacturer? I suppose that the VHT rack would be closer to the UL than the Pittbull, but for cheaper and maybe even more versatile?

I'd really like to make a great purchase now, and buy the best I can, I'm poor! The way I've read about it on the net, the VHT 2/90/2 sounds like the best money can buy new. So that should be good.

I'm quite a simple fellow when it comes to sounds, I'll take a single sound for sounding heavy and one sound for playing clean. I have quite diverse musical tastes, so I'd like versatility, but I can't really say how much. I'm not sure if I'm looking that much to endless knob-spinning etc. I'd like to able to sound like SRV, Gary Moore, Joe Satriani, Slayer, Nile, Halford and all the good ones? You know?

Naturally VHT isn't my only manufacturer to choose from, living in Europe I have stuff like Koch, Orange, ENGL and Framus for quite competitive prices. Should I look at them instead? The VHT is really cheap for an american brand here, though.What would be the best option in your opinion?Cheers if you actually made it this far by reading, and thanks for any replies!

VHT makes some killer amps, the 50 C/L is awesome for rock and metal (some of the tightest amps out there). I don't think you'd be disappointed with it if that's what you're looking for, but a rack setup might yield more versatility.

I like my 2/50/2 amp; GP3, but we already discussed that in an earlier thread.

I'd say play as many as possible.....do you have any speaker cabs?

If you don't, get a good combo....if you do, grab a head or the power amp amp; run the POD or whatever as the pre till you can swing something different.

Did I mention play as many as possible???

That will save you in the long run....take it from someone that has been thru who knows how many amps this past 2 years!!!


Originally Posted by FretFireVHT makes some killer amps, the 50 C/L is awesome for rock and metal (some of the tightest amps out there). I don't think you'd be disappointed with it if that's what you're looking for, but a rack setup might yield more versatility.

Yes, I've been thinking about it for quite some time now. How versatile is it in the end? And how would it be compared to a 2/90/2 GP-3 setup? It would save me a lot of money to just buy the 50 CL, but is it something I'll keep until the day that I die? Or is the rack either? Is anything?

Thanks for your input!


Originally Posted by PUCKBOY99I like my 2/50/2 amp; GP3, but we already discussed that in an earlier thread.

I'd say play as many as possible.....do you have any speaker cabs?

If you don't, get a good combo....if you do, grab a head or the power amp amp; run the POD or whatever as the pre till you can swing something different.

Did I mention play as many as possible???

That will save you in the long run....take it from someone that has been thru who knows how many amps this past 2 years!!!

We have a ****ty Behringer cab at our rehearsal space, I've been using that one. I'm planning on building a cab or having one built for me some time soon.

I'd love to play as many amps as possible, and I do that as much as the circumstances allow.

I think that I'm pretty much after a rock solid tight/super hot rodded/british-american mix amp. I don't really care if it's a combo or a head or a rack setup. I don't really need all the versatility, I can add new stuff to my arsenal all the time, but I just want to buy the best, at least to my needs. Something I won't need to unload after a year of struggling with it, or when something new pops on the market.

Thanks for your help!

Well...........

You can run the 2/50/2 in mono amp; use your POD as a preamp with the Behringer cab.....or just grab a head amp; be done with it.

I guess then the question is: Which head????

As for preamps, I have experience with

VHT GP-3
Marshall JMP-1
Groove Tubes Trio
TECH21/SansAmp PSA-1

All were cool in their own way, but I like the GP-3 the most. It just has a all tube quot;organicquot; tone to it that mixes well with the 2/50/2.

The JMP-1 is very easy to program...

The GT Trio, if you get a newer silver faced one, has a switch up front that combines the 1 amp; 3 channel which really rocked...

The PSA-1 has very useable patches that are fairly easy to alter amp; build you own. I liked a good amount of the Marshall, Fender amp; Mesa patches.

Robert S. runs a Mesa Triaxis amp; he could probably fill you in on that amp; some of the other rack processors/gear.

I'm keeping mine simple:

Power conditioner
Ground Control Switcher
VHT GP-3
VHT 2/50/2

and I'm racking my pedals(Mesa Boogie Bottle Rocket/T-Rex Mudhoney/Hughesamp;kettner Replex)....I'll have my wah amp; the Ground Control at my feet.

Should work out nicely...........but we'll see


Originally Posted by PUCKBOY99Well...........

You can run the 2/50/2 in mono amp; use your POD as a preamp with the Behringer cab.....or just grab a head amp; be done with it.

I guess then the question is: Which head????

Yep, you're more in for the 2/50/2 than 2/90/2? I'm not talking about power, but tone. What's the difference between KT88 and EL34 in your experiences? EL34 is more sweet and midrangey while KT88 is more clean and balanced?

I've been thinking about the Pittbull 50CL head... But I naturally don't know for 100%, and never can. There are so many options, I guess that I'll just have to take something and try it and move on. I'd just like to make a good choice!

How could one compare using just the power section of the Pittbull 50/CL to the 2/50/2 unit, expect the obvious stereo?

I'm not going to be using that Behringer for long now, I'll have the new cab in a few months now, I hope. It's all about how good a job I'll get.


Originally Posted by PUCKBOY99As for preamps, I have experience with

VHT GP-3
Marshall JMP-1
Groove Tubes Trio
TECH21/SansAmp PSA-1

All were cool in their own way, but I like the GP-3 the most. It just has a all tube quot;organicquot; tone to it that mixes well with the 2/50/2.

The JMP-1 is very easy to program...

The GT Trio, if you get a newer silver faced one, has a switch up front that combines the 1 amp; 3 channel which really rocked...

The PSA-1 has very useable patches that are fairly easy to alter amp; build you own. I liked a good amount of the Marshall, Fender amp; Mesa patches.

Robert S. runs a Mesa Triaxis amp; he could probably fill you in on that amp; some of the other rack processors/gear.

I'm keeping mine simple:

Power conditioner
Ground Control Switcher
VHT GP-3
VHT 2/50/2

and I'm racking my pedals(Mesa Boogie Bottle Rocket/T-Rex Mudhoney/Hughesamp;kettner Replex)....I'll have my wah amp; the Ground Control at my feet.

Should work out nicely...........but we'll see

It's funny what preamps you've tried, the ones I've been thinking most about have been the VHT GP-3, Marshall JMP-1 and the Sansamp PSA-1, although I've had a look at the ENGL 570 occasionally too. What kind of music do you play with your own setup?

No experience with the 2/90/2...I have a 2/50/2 amp; 50watts stereo is plenty for me.

The only experience I have with KT88s is when I put them in my Hiwatt. HUGE HEADROOM.....that thing wouldn't break up at all.

If you're kind of set on getting a VHT, try going to

from : localhost/experience over there is it's not as busy as over here...if you ask a question, be patient.

There's a guy named SteveVHT that knows everything you'd want to know about them.....he'll pipe up amp; help you out


Originally Posted by JohtosotkuIt's funny what preamps you've tried, the ones I've been thinking most about have been the VHT GP-3, Marshall JMP-1 and the Sansamp PSA-1, although I've had a look at the ENGL 570 occasionally too. What kind of music do you play with your own setup?

I play a good mix of music, but mainly classic rock....nothing too over the top...

I've heard that ENGL is super too.

The PSA-1 offers a lot of useable amp quot;emulationsquot;....if you play a wide variety of music, trying one of them would not be a waste of time.


Originally Posted by JohtosotkuI think that I'm pretty much after a rock solid tight/super hot rodded/british-american mix amp. I don't really care if it's a combo or a head or a rack setup. I don't really need all the versatility, I can add new stuff to my arsenal all the time, but I just want to buy the best, at least to my needs. Something I won't need to unload after a year of struggling with it, or when something new pops on the market.

Thanks for your help!

IMO you just described an Engl Powerball(or Fireball if 60W is enough) or a Savage(120 or 60). Quality-wise Engls are top-notch handbuilt amps so no problems to expect from this side. Tonewise they sound somewhere between mesa and marshall(maybe a bit more on the mesa-side of things),have plenty of gain if needed and are tight enough for about anything(at least my powerball is but after trying the savage i think it should be the same). Four channels make them versetaille enough for a lot of musical styles allthough metal clearly is what they were designed for. And once you get one there's no need to update anything since those Engls just sound killer on their own.
Engl rocks! :Headbang:

no idea about prices in finnland but since Engl is a german bhrand it shouldn't be too bad.

If I were to buy a VHT tomorrow, it would be a 50/CL. I don't like having those extra options to mess with like separate preamp and power amps. I like just purchasing something the amp manufacturer knows will work well together. It's a tried and true amp that sounds great and won't break the bank.

A rack setup will allow you to tweak your setup more than a regular head, but racks can be very expensive and can be a pain to carry around. The option of changing the power amp to suit different power tubes and voicings may be something that will make it worth it for you, I've just never found a need for it myself

What about that Randall thingie where you can change some tube patches etc.?

I hear they're good, but out of the box, it doesn't come with any modules....you have to buy all the modules separately.

I'm not spending $800.00 for something I can't use unless I spend $200.00 more per module.

****EDIT***
I exaggerated....$560.00 $200.00 per module


Originally Posted by JohtosotkuThe MAP here on VHT Pittbull 50/cl head is 1600€, the 2/90/2 poweramp goes for 1300€ and the GP-3 preamp goes for the same. The VHT UL goes for 2800€.

er....so, if you're going to buy a preamp and a pa for that price why don´t you try a triaxis and a 2:90 or a 2:50...if you were finding for versatility, thats your amp...8 modes, 127 memory banks (well you will really use 10, if you need to use 10 presets some day...) all the mark series sound there...for 200 bucks more...and its easy (really) to program

i tried the marshall preamp and a couple more (the recto preamp also) and this one is the best i´ve found...if you can, try it, its the best one (of course, imo)


Originally Posted by PUCKBOY99No experience with the 2/90/2...I have a 2/50/2 amp; 50watts stereo is plenty for me.

The only experience I have with KT88s is when I put them in my Hiwatt. HUGE HEADROOM.....that thing wouldn't break up at all.

If you're kind of set on getting a VHT, try going to

from : localhost/experience over there is it's not as busy as over here...if you ask a question, be patient.

There's a guy named SteveVHT that knows everything you'd want to know about them.....he'll pipe up amp; help you outOriginally Posted by PUCKBOY99I play a good mix of music, but mainly classic rock....nothing too over the top...

I've heard that ENGL is super too.

The PSA-1 offers a lot of useable amp quot;emulationsquot;....if you play a wide variety of music, trying one of them would not be a waste of time.

Yep, I'm not decided on which VHT to go for if I decide to go for one, but I'll make the decision based on sound, not power.

There are a lot of preamps to try out, I guess I'll just have to try to score them used one by one and then let them back at the market if they're not for my liking. The market is just really tiny here, not so much going on used or even new.

Thanks!


Originally Posted by LoserchiefIMO you just described an Engl Powerball(or Fireball if 60W is enough) or a Savage(120 or 60). Quality-wise Engls are top-notch handbuilt amps so no problems to expect from this side. Tonewise they sound somewhere between mesa and marshall(maybe a bit more on the mesa-side of things),have plenty of gain if needed and are tight enough for about anything(at least my powerball is but after trying the savage i think it should be the same). Four channels make them versetaille enough for a lot of musical styles allthough metal clearly is what they were designed for. And once you get one there's no need to update anything since those Engls just sound killer on their own.
Engl rocks! :Headbang:

no idea about prices in finnland but since Engl is a german bhrand it shouldn't be too bad.

The ENGLs cost about the same here as in Germany, which is naturally a lot cheaper than in the US or Canada. They're really popular around here, really many bands use them while gigging too. I'll have to have a look at them, it would be great if I could find one amp that was 100% to my liking without having to put together a huge rack of different preamps and poweramps.

Aren't the ENGLs really only two-channel amps with boost? How versatile are they? How good are they for stuff like Kreator/Stone/Exodus?


Originally Posted by the_ChrisIf I were to buy a VHT tomorrow, it would be a 50/CL. I don't like having those extra options to mess with like separate preamp and power amps. I like just purchasing something the amp manufacturer knows will work well together. It's a tried and true amp that sounds great and won't break the bank.

A rack setup will allow you to tweak your setup more than a regular head, but racks can be very expensive and can be a pain to carry around. The option of changing the power amp to suit different power tubes and voicings may be something that will make it worth it for you, I've just never found a need for it myself

Thanks for your thoughts! What makes you take the 50/CL over the other VHT options? Over other amps, maybe?

I'm not really that much of a tinkerer, swapping tubes and modding amps etc. Maybe the rack setup would be too much for me, I'll have to think about it.

I think that I'd rather take a standard amp if it was good enough and affordable too. A rack system would be easier to build with time and cheaper to mod as well. Maybe it could adjust to evolving tastes better than a standard head as well. I really don't know.


Originally Posted by WaR HeaDer....so, if you're going to buy a preamp and a pa for that price why don´t you try a triaxis and a 2:90 or a 2:50...if you were finding for versatility, thats your amp...8 modes, 127 memory banks (well you will really use 10, if you need to use 10 presets some day...) all the mark series sound there...for 200 bucks more...and its easy (really) to program

i tried the marshall preamp and a couple more (the recto preamp also) and this one is the best i´ve found...if you can, try it, its the best one (of course, imo)

Well, Mesa stuff is far too expensive around here. A setup like that would be about 4000#8364; while the VHT setup is only 2500#8364;.

Do you think that the Mesa poweramp is better than the VHT one? If you do, why?


Originally Posted by JohtosotkuThe ENGLs cost about the same here as in Germany, which is naturally a lot cheaper than in the US or Canada. They're really popular around here, really many bands use them while gigging too. I'll have to have a look at them, it would be great if I could find one amp that was 100% to my liking without having to put together a huge rack of different preamps and poweramps.

Aren't the ENGLs really only two-channel amps with boost? How versatile are they? How good are they for stuff like Kreator/Stone/Exodus?

Yeah right, they are in fact two channels but with the boosts(clean to crunch/low gain lead to high gain lead) the overall voicing of the channel canges and not just the gain level so it's more like four channels than like two channels with gain boosts. Imo you can get about any kind of metal tone out of them(kreator works great if you aks me). My powerball has lots of additional sound shapers extra to the channel's normal eq(seperate knobs for open and focused mids/depth punch knob/presence control), so the versaitillity is clearly given if you want it. Just look the exact features up if you wanna see for yourself.