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I recently had the pleasure of playing a Gibson Joe Perry quot;Boneyardquot; Les Paul. I am used to Classics and Standards. I had a LP Standard for awhile and i guess i always just assumed that the custom shop ones weren't going to be that much better because the Standards are already such nice sounding guitars. Boy was i suprised when played it, it sounded fuller and had a fatter top end both acoustically and plugged in. As a result, i feel the extra money spent on a custom shop is money well spent. Anyways my question is why are the new '57 goldtops and '58 plaintops both now quot;onlyquot; 2500$? I seem to remember them being a bit more expensive? Plus, didn't the '58 used to be more than the '57? Musicians Friend is selling both for 2500$, but Music123 is selling some for more than that, which is odd because those two almost always have the same prices. Also, on Ebay there are some that are a few years old that are selling for more than the new ones? So whats the deal, all of them are supposedly custom shop guitars right? And does having a flammed top on the '59 really constitute of an extra 1000$ or more? Its all kinda confusing. Is there anyone who can clear all this up?

Thanks

yes the cs stuff is better. hands down. better materials and better workmanship.

the 57 and 58 are very similar guitars with the difference being finish. with a gold top you can use an ugly board no so with the '58's. the flame on the '59 might not be worth $1000 or $2000 more but pretty wood is expensive and the '59 is the quot;holy grailquot; for most gibson guys. the neck shape is smaller than the other quot;olderquot; reissues. personally i like the bigger necks on the '52-'58 ri's

not sure why the fiend is selling em both for the same price, the 1958 ri retails for more so i assume that it costs more

Just for reference, I recently paid $1995 for a 57 Reissue les paul. A few years ago, my R8 cost about 2700.

The very best deal in Gibsons is to find a used one you can play somewhere. They really do vary in tone IMHO. Quality varies as well, as oft documented here and elsewhere.

There are several of the smaller dealers out there, wildwood, music machine, dave's, music zoo etc. that still have a small inventory of good historics that they are selling for better-than-MF prices.

I won't turn this into another thread about how Gibson screwed over the smaller mom and pop dealers, but I'm still PO'd about it.

The thing about the R8s are they are all quot;plaintopsquot; now. The prices have gone down. I just bought a brand new one for $2K. They are excellent guitars, much better than the regular production standards-lighter woods, fatter neck on the '58, thinner nitro finish, long neck tenon, and overall better attention to detail.


Originally Posted by hackerThe thing about the R8s are they are all quot;plaintopsquot; now. The prices have gone down. I just bought a brand new one for $2K. They are excellent guitars, much better than the regular production standards-lighter woods, fatter neck on the '58, thinner nitro finish, long neck tenon, and overall better attention to detail.

In all cases, please provide the name of a dealer that gave you that great price! We need to support those guys more. (even if it's GC, we need to know)

That old saying quot;you get what you pay forquot; bothers some people, especially anti-Gibson guys, but the truth is....those guitars wouldn't sell for silly money if they weren't superior instruments. I've found that you've got to put your hands on a lot of guitars in order to recognize the cream of the crop. You can pick up a Standard that plays and sounds just as good, but it's hit or miss. Same thing with the high end Gibsons, although most of them are 'hits.' The main thing to remember is neck profile. Before anything else, make sure you know whether you like a slim 60's, 59, or boatneck profile. So many people buy Historics, thinking they're the 'be all end all', but that only happens if the neck profile is perfect for your hand. It's important to buy with the firt pre-requisite being the neck profile. After that, it's all about tone.

Gearjonser is absolutely right. The neck must be comfortable for you. The '57 and '58 Historics that I've played all are great.

Scott F-the store is Music Arts Enterprise (MAE) in Florida. They do have a website, but I dont have a link and I remember it being serioulsy outdated.

They had another R8 in washed Cherry, same as mine.

I love Historics, but I gotta admit, some of those necks are just a bit too chunky for my hand. I like hefty necks, but I play best on 59 Profile or McCarty necks. Some of those Historics feel like a baseball bat. The baseball bat necks definitely have the TONE, but I'd rather have one that's less thick and easier to solo on.

i like the standard necks and the slim tapered ones since im used to thinner necks on fenders.

I didn't think I'd like it, but I actually love Gibson's 60s slim taper necks. It feels actually thicker than my Grosh, but thinner than the baseball bat necks... it's almost perfect (I lucked out considering I bought the guitar sight unseen). I always hated Fenders strat necks and some of Gamp;Ls thinner ones, but the Gibson quot;slimquot; neck feels a bit bigger than medium, which is dead on for my playing.

GJ hit a strong point with the quality/price issue and it's going to hurt some people's feelings, but there is some truth there. Make no mistake about it, Gibson makes some serious professional level pieces. I'm floored by my Grosh too (it's the sweetest strat I've ever heard or played), but the Gibson I instantly took to (something I can't say about many guitars).

I sold my beautiful mccarty because the neck just wasn't fat enough for my hands. It was a wide-fat, teh guitar was and is a gem (t4d has it now), but everytime I would play my Les Paul it just felt right in the hand.

I gotta have that baseball bat neck!

Was it 2 years ago that Gibson decided to go with basically the same wood that's on the R7's for the R8's?

Prior to 2003-4 when you bought an R8 you basically got an R9. You could get stupid crazy tops, and an 8.5 lb guitar. Some people say the necks were different- when I picked my 01 R8 up at Dave's I played every RI in the house and I didn't notice much of a difference in the necks.

Whenever that point was, Gibson started using heavier mahogany and stopped using really nice maple for the tops. So it was a given you were going to be getting a heavier plaintop when you got an R8. When you're getting a solid finish- such as a goldtop, the wood on the top doesn't really matter- you're not going to see it. But the see-through finish of a sunburst is going to show flame, mineral streaks, growth rings and other imperfections in the wood. I got into the whole Historic thing because of the neck size. It's funny how Gibson followed suit with the Standards in 2002.

Scott_F- I love a baseball bat neck, but I remember PRS did a run of McCartys with Brazillian RW necks (not just fretboards- the whole neck) that were thicker than the business end of a Louisville Slugger. Looked like really nice rosewood, but man, those were some massive chunks of neck.