software

Last night on the way home I was listening to AC/DC's Back in Black album. It's one of my favorites of all time but the one thing that always keeps me listening is the tone of Angus and Malcolm. It's so freakin' awesome. No effects, nothing fancy, just a guitar plugged in to a Marshall turned up.

So that gets me thinking. In the 80's (and I'm using this era because that's when I started playing and am most familiar with) so many players had rack systems up to the ceiling or rows of pedals, or both, yet they sounded like crap. There were a select few who still had good tone but all in all, many of the 80's players had a really generic tone that just wasn't there all the time. Now we have players who are using minimal to no effects with wonderful tone.

Does this mean that a simpler rig will help in achieving a better tone? Does less equal more in this case? Just some food for thought.

My opinion - less does equal more. Quit stompin' and play yer guitar.

I had the exact same experience a few months ago listening to that same album. If you listen closely you quickly discover just how completely tight Angus and Malcom are. The sound is raw but the playing completely lacks sloppiness.

I've got a crapload of pedals that I use for different styles of music and I don't have 'em all on at once, but I agree that the simplicity of the Youngs' sound is a testament to how great someone can sound with a guitar, an amp and a cable.
Your thread is actually a great segue to a poll I'm about to post.
- Keith

Did the super-strat and rack thing...

First tried the ADA MP1, then bought the 9001 (?) Marshall Tube Pre-amp and ran them through my Jackson 50 watt tube power section. And had one of those ART rack multi-effect things..cannot remember the model, but was the top dog at the time.

I got some good sounds...but yeah..for the most part rack rigs IMO, are more quot;sterilequot;, especially the digital effects. I'd always find myself getting frustrated and grabbing my Les Pauls, Explorers, etc and running them straight into the Jackson, or Laney or 800, or what have you.. maybe with a couple stompers. When I got my 1987X it was a revelation....I could play that amp all day long with jes a TS for a boost and be happy...never felt I needed anything else. My Rivera is excellent for that too. Haven't plugged anythin in the loop yet, and rarely plug in my phaser or chorus. Just a little on-board reverb.

I experimented with tons of guitars (from low output stock teles and strats to hot rodded supa-strats), lotsa amps (from Jazz Chorus and Fender champs, to high gain 900s, Laneys and MESAs) I *always* come back to that less=more Gibson guitar into a Marshall (esque) amp with the occasional stomp of a boost, phase or chorus (mostly phaser). My modern take on vintage hard rock tones...if you will.

I think where things like Modeling amps and rack rigs are more viable is for the touring musician or guitarists in cover bands who need a wide variety of sounds. I don't play gigs anymore..jes play at home and jam with friends on occasion. But even when I did play out, I always had quot;myquot; sound. Set up a good crunch, good lead, roll the vol knob for cleans, and then some effects for color.

It's pretty much preference...but if you get too into it then you will overprocess your sound then it will sound like ****. And remember, alot of 80's hair bands used SS amps and buckets of reverb, delays, chorus's etc.

AC/DC kicks ass...I will never have more than 4 pedals on the floor (including amp switcher and tuner).

If I have it my way, the only thing between the guitar and the amp is a tuner and maybe an OD for a boost. Usually the other guys will want me to use a chorus on some things- and in an old band they wanted a delay. I'm too easily confused to have too many pedals.

I find that when I'm playing I usually ony have an Amp (I use a podxt though) and maybe a little delay, I only ever use the other effects if I want to get a certain tone.

I'll be the first to admit that the 80's racks of doom were over the top (what wasn't in those days?) but that doesn't necessarily mean that FX = bad tone.
After all, guitarists like The Edge and Andy Summers have used their huge racks to create wonderful textures. David Gilmour certainly doesn't shy away from FX but his tone is top notch. Let's not forget avant garde folks like Adrian Belew for whom the FX are essentially part of the instrument.
For straight-ahead rock sounds, you can get great results with a simple rig but the bottom line is that good tone is in the hands...of the person dialing in the rig. Someone with a good ear that knows what he's doing can get good tones out of anything, regardless of how complex it might be, while some folks have trouble dialing in a Pignose.

I never use pedals and dnon't plan on doing so. I never even use the effects on my Roland, I just chose an amp and set the controls and gain level. I actually hate the way phasers and flangers and those things sound. When I get a tube amp, the most I am going to have is either a distortion or OD pedal, and a tuner. Chorus just gets lost in the mix anyways unless you drown the amp in it.


Originally Posted by aleclee...some folks have trouble dialing in a Pignose.

Hmmm....on?...off?...on?.. off? GAHHHHHHHH!....I'm CONFUSED!
Simple is better IMO. I used to used, wah's, phasers, multi effects, choruses, all on a pedal board. I quickly learned that every pedal you use sucks tone out of you. That's why my rig is now OLP/LP-fasel true bypass wah-H and K. Nothing else. It just sounds good. If you want different sounds, use your hands to do it.

i am gonna have to go with aleclee on this (amen re: edge, gilmore, belew, summers, etc) ... and maybe even take the point further ...

the guitar tones of the 80's for the most part fit the songs ... they were well suited ... yeah, some guys had really crappy tone, but IMO they were playing crappy tunes anyway, so it didnt matter .. no 'great tone' was gonna save some of the dreck that was out there ... i am all for LPs into Marshalls blah blah .. but those are not the only keys to good tone .. ESPECIALLY recorded tone ...

t4d


Originally Posted by SeraphimTN... If you want different sounds, use your hands to do it.see, this is simple minded reductionism ... your hands cant make delay .. your hands cant make chorus or phaser ... they are EFFECTS that produce an EFFECT ... some people can use effects to produce musical results and some over rely on them to the point of distraction ....

technology has advanced to the point where no-load effects bypass is available, so 'tone sucking' is not inevitable ... and some incredible music was made with tone-sucking effects from the 60's and 70s ... sweeping generalizations are not instructive for anyone .. i have heard some 'simple rig' players suck just as bad as some heavy effects users ... blame the craftsman, not the tools

t4d

Good points about Gilmour and The Edge and Summers. I guess I was too engrosed in the music when this hit my mind. They are definitely exceptions. Gilmour's rig is freakin complex as hell. I don't know how he keeps track of what is what.

Good views. Let's see some more.

Another thing about listening to AC/DC is just how clean the guitar are recorded. Musicians and engineers can learn a lot from that alone.

1 AlecLee. Effects have their place, and some players use them very ... um, effectively

At my band's rehearsals, I've been using this rig:

Tele -gt; Fender tuner pedal (it sucks) -gt; Boss Blues Driver -gt; Dunlop Hendrix Wah -gt; Mesa DC-3

The Mesa could use some new power tubes, but I am still very pleased with the tone I'm getting, as is the rest of the band. Even when I play through the PODxt at home, I tend to just set it to a Vox AC-30 or a Matchless Chieftain with no effects and wail away. That said, I am also keen on coming up with new types of guitar sounds, and I am really enjoying using the POD to mess around with that.


Originally Posted by The Golden BoyAnother thing about listening to AC/DC is just how clean the guitar are recorded. Musicians and engineers can learn a lot from that alone.

1. When a young player wants to play quot;Back In Blackquot;, they invariably crank the gain (I used to do this too) and it sounds bad. The rhythm guitar tone is actually very clean compared to today's hard rock.

There is a big difference between quot;fatquot; guitar tone, and quot;distortedquot; guitar tone. The former has more to do with EQ than gain.

yup, and i would not be surprised if malcom and angus also have significant hearing damage ... they move ALOT of air to get those tones

t4d

I've kinda gone full circle with this topic, since I've used a variety of rigs, and even used to wire up Bradshaw type racks for players back when it was popular.

I look at it like a garden hose. Beautiful, harmonically rich, fat tone is the water that comes out of the end. Every piece of gear in the signal chain is like a hole being punched in the side of the garden hose, weakening the tone........BUT ONLY if you let it.

The key for great tone, IMO, has less to do with FX than how you choose to route them. The purest tone comes from a highend guitar with top notch pickups, going through quality cables, straight into an all tube amplifier.
The things that subtract from it's purity is non-truebypass pedals, rack gear in FX loops, or too many pieces in the chain. The solution is to strip away all the tonesucking devices and put them on their own switchable loop.
There's no reason to have a rack with more than 3 or 4 pieces in it. If you must use a rack, it's better to have a preamp and high-end FX unit midi mapped, out to a power amp, to speakers. Anything more than that should be on a loop.
If you use a pedalboard, use the minimum number of true bypass pedals in the chain, then put the less used or non-truebypass pedals on a loop box, so 1 button brings them into the chain or keeps them removed. Following those simple rules will maximize your tone.

I use what I consider necessities to get sounds I want. Nothing more. And if that means carrying around a pedalboard, that's fine with me.


Originally Posted by GearjoneserThe purest tone comes from a highend guitar with top notch pickups, going through quality cables, straight into an all tube amplifier.

I'd pose the question whether quot;purequot; tone is necessarily better. For example, I prefer the tone with my 20 year old Proco cables than the heavy duty oxygen-free beasts I got from Lord Valve. Guitar rigs are not hi-fi. We go to a lot of effort to introduce distortion into the signal chain through our pickups, pedals, amps, and speakers.
Anyone out there remember the cables that SRV preferred?