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Hi guys,
I play LPs and my main one has a set of PGs in there that I have been very pleased with. However, I'm starting to think of a change. I've listened to a few live recordings of my band recently and my sound is thinner and sharper than I had imagined.
Here's what I'm looking for - an AII mag PAF that's potted (as I use a fair amount of gain and volume). The sound I'm hearing in my head is sweet, thick, warm, round, singing and creamy.
Anyone got any suggestions?
Help!

I think you've pretty much described a Custom custom....

i have a seth lover with a pgb, a little smoother neck tone than the pgn.
if you want a smoother warmer neck tone but need a potted pup, try an aph.

all those adjectives you used sound like neck pup tone to me

An alnico 2 pro will have a warmer tone, but slightly less output than the PG. I love my A2Ps.

Luke

I suggest first switching over to 250K tone pots and using a slightly bigger cap for the bridge pickup.

This should roll off a touch of the highs on the PG. I'm doing this in my own Lester. I use 500k CTS volume pots and neck tone and a 250k tone for the bridge.

My caps are .022mfd for the neck and a .047 for the bridge. Both are Orange Drops.

If that doesn't smooth it out enough, I'd suggest a pair of Seth Lovers. I run a 100 watt stereo rig with plenty of gain and have never had any unwanted feedback with mine in a semi-hollow. Those pickups should do very well in a LP.

Thanks for your input guys. I have some questions for you if you don't mind:
1. I hadn't considered the Custom custom as its a higher output pup than a standard PAF type pup. Does it still clean up nicely when turned down? The description sounds real intersting and I've just listened to Marins demo of a CC and it sounds great. I'd like a pup than can take me from a bluesy rock Warren Haynes / Gary Moore'ish kinda of thing to turning down to a 60s british blues kind of thing - Clapton, Green, Taylor etc.

2. With regards to the APH - is this considered to be a PAF type pup or not really? When I think of SD PAFs I think of 59s, PGs, Seths and Antiquities.

Jeremy - yeah I guess my adjectives sound more like I was describing a neck pup but really its more the bridge I'm more un-happy with - I'm starting to wonder if it sounds to sharp, abrasive and thin. I really want thicker, warmer, sweeter etc.

Thanks for the suggestions so far guys - look forward to your answers and any other opinions.

I would suggest either a pair of Alnico II Pros or possibly (if you want a hotter bridge pup) an Alnico II Pro neck with a Custom Custom at the bridge. I personally haven't played a CC, but the CC/APH-1 combo has a lot of fans here among people who like the A2 sound but want more beef at the bridge.

I have a set of Alnico II Pros in my '96 LP Standard and like them a lot. They have vintage output, smooth mids and a singing top end. A very well balanced tone. They're not clones of any particular PAF variant, but they are humbuckers that, output-wise and tonally, sit in the PAF ballpark, and the SD web site (correctly IMO) groups them with the vintage 'buckers. Anything you would use a PAF for you could also use an Alnico II Pro for.

I really like Seths and Ants too, and think they would meet your tonal requirements, but they aren't potted.

I think you would like the Alnico II Pros.

i agree with much of what has been said already ... i am curious though .... has your opinion of your sound been influenced solely by listenin to the recording you heard? ... or are you also unhappy with the sound you hear with your ears while you are playing? ... my point is this ... if you dig your tone when you are playing, be careful not to be too influenced by the sound you heard on recording .. i mean, you mightve just gotten a crappy mic job or gotten pinched in the mix, yunno?

cheers
t4d

ps - as for the C5b cleaning up when turned down, yes, it does, nicely ... but it still a bit 'scooped' in the middle, to my ears ... given how enamoured i was playing an R8 LP with Ants through a Bogner XTC, my advice is to give the Ants a shot in your LP ... very warm-n-creamy bridge tone but retaining nice cut and note definition ...

Here is my SD generic breakdown, most of my experience has been PAF style pups, that is reflected here.

Antiquity---A pup that is hand made by Seymour or MJ that has been artificially aged. The magnet has been degaussed and the cover has been distressed along with the screws so as to appear vintage. Everything is done to make these pups as close to an original that you would buy from a collector that was out of a guitar that was played everyday and gigged with. They have complex mids and are smooth. They are available in A2 or A5 magnet varieties. Vintage 2 Conductor Wire

The 59---The 59 is the quintessential A5 PAF (patent applied for) pup. Imagine getting in a time machine and going back to 1959 and swiping a brand new A5 pup from the Gibson factory in Kalamazoo and bringing it forward to today. They have found most homes in many neck slots. It has symetrical coils and lots of quack. It has thumping bass, a scooped mid, and cutting highs. Vintage 2 Conductor Wire

The Seth Lover---This pup is as true to the original as can be. This pup is unpotted and comes standard with a gold, or nickel pup cover. It has an A2 magnet and has good quack and fair mids. For this pup imagine going back in time to 1955 and grabbing one of the very first PAF's before they debuted in the LP's. This pup is warm and creamy, but can also get bright with the tone knob on 10. Vintage 2 Conductor Wire

The Alnico 2 Pro---The warmest of the Duncan PAF line. It has symetrical coils and is a modern take on the A2 PAFs. It has round bass and smooth treble, it also has lots of mids to make the guitar really sing. It will warm up the coldest or shrillest of guitars. The most well known Alnico 2 Pro user is Slash of Velvet Revolver and GNR. Standard 4 Conductor Wire

Pearly Gates---The PG is the hottest of the Duncan PAF line. It has asymetrical (mismatched) coils and an A2 magnet. The mismatched coils give this particular pup its rude personality. It has a frequency push in the Presence/Cut knob frequency band. This is the quot;Sizzlequot; PG owner talk about. It has the most mids of the Ducan PAF line and is also the hottest. Its patron is Billy Gibbons of ZZ Top. Standard 4 conductor Wire

The Jazz---The jazz is the pup that bridges the gap between Vintage and Modern pups. Its output is at or around the vintage level. Don't let the name fool you this pup is very versatile and smooth. It has an A5 magnet and is very widely used in the neck slot. It is articulate regardless of the tuning as well. This pup negociates cleans or overdrive very well. Standard 4 Conductor Wire

The Custom Series---The Custom Series is all on pup configuration but with different magnets. The coils are symmetrical and the pups come with Standard 4 Conductor wire

Custom---The Custom is a PAF kicked up a few notches. This pup gets its aggressive edge from its Ceramic magnet. This pup has lots of grind with good treble and midrange. It also has ample bass for palm mute playing.

Custom Custom---The Custom Custom is a midrange heavy pup that lends itself to leads and warming bright guitars. This pup gets its huge midrange from the Alnico 2 magnet. I has smooth bass and treble. Essentially it is an overwound A2 PAF.

Custom 5---The Custom 5 is a pup with an EQ very identical to The 59. It has thumping bass, scooped mids, and cutting treble. Like the 59 it is a bright pup that will liven up dark guitar, but the bass can be overwhelming in a bassy guitar, or the the treble overwhelming in a trebly guitar.

JB---The JB is in a class of its own. There is really no other pup like it. It has fair bass and lots of treble. This particular pup has a large upper mids spike that allow it to cut through the mix like no other. It can be heard on countless recording especially throughout the 80's. Lots of people like to pair it with a Jazz or 59 in the neck. In bright guitars it is usually soldered to a 250k pot just like the original Seymour made 30 years ago.

I know this is more than you wanted, but hopefully you'll find the comparisons useful.

Luke

hey t4d - good point, but the live recording only made me confirm to myself what I had been in denial about during rehearsals.
Wow Luke - thanks for the input and taking the time to put that together. Working through your descriptions, - if either the seth or the antiquity were potted, they would be the ones for me I think. I think I would really suffer with microphonic feedback using an un-potted pup.
- The description of the custom custom pretty much describes exactly the sound I am trying to capture but I'm concerned about the high output. I'm probably wrong, but I thought as a general guide if a pup was high output you tended to sacrifice any sweetness in the tone?- I see you are describing the APH as a PAF. Judging from peoples inputs I'm starting to wonder if this is the one for me. A warm A2 PAF is exactly the thing I want.

lastly:- as already mentioned, I have PGs and reading your description of these having a frequency push in the prescence frequency makes me wonder if I should take some time out to experiment properly with my amps tone controls. This sounds like a really obvious thing to do but I'm kind of embarrased to admit that I tend to leave my tone controls on my Marshall all at tabout 12 o'clock. I need to experiment! I know Warren Haynes used PGs and his sound is the other end of the spectrum to 'thin and sharp'. I understand he also has his amps modded to cut the top end.Next rehearsal I'll take some time out when the other guys are having a drink to see if cutting the presence and or treble on the amp might sort it out.

Lastly, thanks everyone for trying to help.


Originally Posted by spideyhey t4d - good point, but the live recording only made me confirm to myself what I had been in denial about during rehearsals.
Wow Luke - thanks for the input and taking the time to put that together. Working through your descriptions, - if either the seth or the antiquity were potted, they would be the ones for me I think. I think I would really suffer with microphonic feedback using an un-potted pup.
- The description of the custom custom pretty much describes exactly the sound I am trying to capture but I'm concerned about the high output. I'm probably wrong, but I thought as a general guide if a pup was high output you tended to sacrifice any sweetness in the tone?- I see you are describing the APH as a PAF. Judging from peoples inputs I'm starting to wonder if this is the one for me. A warm A2 PAF is exactly the thing I want.

lastly:- as already mentioned, I have PGs and reading your description of these having a frequency push in the prescence frequency makes me wonder if I should take some time out to experiment properly with my amps tone controls. This sounds like a really obvious thing to do but I'm kind of embarrased to admit that I tend to leave my tone controls on my Marshall all at tabout 12 o'clock. I need to experiment! I know Warren Haynes used PGs and his sound is the other end of the spectrum to 'thin and sharp'. I understand he also has his amps modded to cut the top end.Next rehearsal I'll take some time out when the other guys are having a drink to see if cutting the presence and or treble on the amp might sort it out.

Lastly, thanks everyone for trying to help.

Glad to help man! I would definitely pull back the presence on my amp first and increase my bass if I were you, just noodling will help you a lot.

IF you decide to change pups just remember that the CC will have a smooth bottom end, but not tight. The top end will be smooth but still somewhat aggressive. It can be tamed down, you can do some convincing chikin pikin too.

That said, I love my bridge A2P in my Heritage 150 (LP) it has a smooth but still pretty firm bass, it also has good girth in the midrange but not as much as the PG or CC. The high end is definitely of the PAF flavor with enough cut to get through anything. I have a jazz in the neck which sounds very nice with the A2P. I will eventually try out the A2P in the neck slot as well, it's just a matter of getting the magnet.

Luke

Hey Luke - and everyone else, thanks for your input!


Originally Posted by Luke DukeI love my bridge A2P in my Heritage 150 (LP) it has a smooth but still pretty firm bass, it also has good girth in the midrange but not as much as the PG or CC. The high end is definitely of the PAF flavor with enough cut to get through anything.

Nice description Luke. That's exactly how the A2P bridge sounds in my '96 LP Std.

I have the CC/AIIP combo in my Fly Deluxe. So far, so good. The CC in combo with the poplar body of the Fly is slightly brighther than I would normally choose, but it's starting to grow on me.

OTOH, another guitarist at church just bought a 1960 RI Les Paul Classic with a pair of Antiquities, and this axe sounds SWEET!


Originally Posted by spideyHey Luke - and everyone else, thanks for your input!

You are most welcome!

Luke


Originally Posted by spideyThanks for your input guys. I have some questions for you if you don't mind:
1. I hadn't considered the Custom custom as its a higher output pup than a standard PAF type pup. Does it still clean up nicely when turned down? The description sounds real intersting and I've just listened to Marins demo of a CC and it sounds great. I'd like a pup than can take me from a bluesy rock Warren Haynes / Gary Moore'ish kinda of thing to turning down to a 60s british blues kind of thing - Clapton, Green, Taylor etc.

Don't let the fact that the Custom Custom is hotter scare you away from it. I just threw one in to my Epi LP and I have another one that was in an alder guitar and now in my Kramer. It cleans up real nice with the volume knob. It can be really mild, or really wild depending on what you're throwing it at. Through a Marshall stack, it'll deliver all you want and more. Plug it up in to a clean amp, like a Twin, and it sings very sweetly. Lew calls it quot;syrupyquot;, I call it quot;creamyquot;. It's been my favorite bridge 'bucker for years.

A little update for you guys - I've pretty much got the sound I've been hearing in my head by just playing with the tone controls on my Marshall. Normally I'd have all tone controls set at 12 o'clock. I've cut the presence to 9 o'clock, treble to 11 o'clock and boosted the bass and middle to 3 o'clock. Not only does it sound warmer but it also sounds more vintage to my ears.
That's me sorted.... at least for the time being.
Thanks again for eveyone's input.


Originally Posted by Luke DukeAn alnico 2 pro will have a warmer tone, but slightly less output than the PG. I love my A2Ps.

Luke

1, I was going to give him the same suggestion!