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I know that for some, a tube amp running all out is considered to be tonal valhalla. My question is, is it really just the tubes? Sure, I can get a hotplate, or a weber mass, and have those tubes running really hot, with a severly reduced lifespan. But, why doesn't that cranked up sound have something to do with the speakers as well? how much more are they vibrating with your volume at 0.5 as opposed to 5.0? I suppose if you try the same cabinet with a Solid state head, the difference in tone at certain volumes is more in the hands of the speakers, than it is in the head? For that cranked up tube amp tone, I think there can really be NO substitute, and why should there be? No hotplate or mass can make that cranked up tube sound at bedroom levels, how can it? If I ever go into the studio again, I know my amp will be cranked to at least 8, and there will be Rock.

actually, on my mesa blue angel, which runs 2 types of power tubes (no master volume), its 'sweet spot' is between 4 amp; 5, and no higher. If it is cranked higher it just sounds all blatty...but even at 18 watts, 4 or 5 is too loud for practice.
In the end, I don't care what technology gets me there, as long as it is a sound I want (that non-master 6v6t sound just being one of the sounds I like).

i think your right......the whole tube tone thing is about the tubes heating up, the speakers getting pushed around, and your body feeling the sound......its a combination of all those things that give it a great complex and dynamic sound

Well, I'd say that the best tone is available only when you play at high volumes without hotplates etc., but if you have to play low volumes they still help.

Speakers and tubes at high volume = the best
speakers at low and tubes at high = better
speakers and tubes at low volume = worse than above

pushed speakers pushed tubes Fletcher-Munson curve = cranked amp tone

The first and third components limit the ability to capture things at bedroom volume. In my experience, it takes about 90dB in the room (not at 1m) before most rigs get cooking, even when attenuated.

you know what I'm finding - I've been using my tube amps at low volumes for laid back quiet solos. they work just fine for that purpose too!

but, when I really push my Legacy 4-12quot; (w/greenbacks) I swear that they add some extra bite because they can't quite handle the volume. it's all good.

Yes you need to push the speakers to get quot;thatquot; tone. I don't like to use high attenuation with my attenuator, it gets dark and compressed. With more actual volume, the amp has a lot more life when pushing the speakers harder.

The whole quot;bedroom levelquot; concept of real rock tone is kinda mute in my opinion. For awesome tube tone you need ear plugs and a kidney belt

Absolutely. I've always tell people who are shopping for an attenuator that a better option would be earplugs and soundproofing material. People give the tubes too much credit. The speaker and everything else have a lot to do with tone too!

I like to stand in front of a loud amp, but to be honest, I think the best recorded tones I've ever gotten have come from amps that weren't running all that loud. I find you get a more open and dynamic and natural tone when micing an amp if it's not absolutely cranked. I think it has something to do with the diaphagm of the microphone not compressing the sound as much at lower volumes.

^A really good condensor mic shouldn't have much of a problem with that. It is likely that the average mic would be overloaded with a fully cranked amp right in front of it.