software

Howdy, my name is Jacob, and I suck at recording.

Right now, I'm not even worried about production of the recording, I'm just trying to get down the playing. Once my playing is set, then I'll worry about the recording's tone.

So anyway, I've been playing guitar and bass for a few years. I mostly just jam with my friends and write songs. I know my limitations pretty well, and while just messing around with my friends, we jam pretty well.

But recording (as if it's a surprise) is totally different.

When jamming, it's totally acceptable to hit a wrong note once in a while. As Angus Young said, if you don't hit a bum note once in a while, you're not trying hard enough.

Obviously, when you're recording, one bum note means you've gotta scrap the track.

But that's not a big deal, when recording, you're not really improvising, you know your part, and if you're messing up, it just means you've gotta practice more.

My problem isn't with hitting bum notes, per se. My problem is getting the part to be perfectly uniform. If you listen to any recording, even any recording made by random people on this forum, everything seems to be so totally controlled, so uniform. If there's a set rhythm for the guitar that repeats 4 times, the 4 repetitions seem to be exactly identicle. The bass doesn't bump a little bit more the second time through, and the drums don't fluxuate at all.

How in the world does one develop this sort of control, so that every time they play something, it sounds exactly the same as it did before?

Any tips? Do I just have to practice like mad, or is there a specific method to gaining enough control to allow yourself to sound good on a recording?

Thanks,
Jacob


Originally Posted by JacobTMWhen jamming, it's totally acceptable to hit a wrong note once in a while. As Angus Young said, if you don't hit a bum note once in a while, you're not trying hard enough.

Obviously, when you're recording, one bum note means you've gotta scrap the track.

But that's not a big deal, when recording, you're not really improvising, you know your part, and if you're messing up, it just means you've gotta practice more.

My problem isn't with hitting bum notes, per se. My problem is getting the part to be perfectly uniform. If you listen to any recording, even any recording made by random people on this forum, everything seems to be so totally controlled, so uniform. If there's a set rhythm for the guitar that repeats 4 times, the 4 repetitions seem to be exactly identicle. The bass doesn't bump a little bit more the second time through, and the drums don't fluxuate at all.

How in the world does one develop this sort of control, so that every time they play something, it sounds exactly the same as it did before?

Any tips? Do I just have to practice like mad, or is there a specific method to gaining enough control to allow yourself to sound good on a recording?

Thanks,
JacobI have a friend who was a session guitar player in the 80's....non Protools for editing, no sampling and looping short phrases for the length of the song...you had to go in...read the part and play it...perfect. Maybe not the first time, but he tells me of playing delayed repeat note arpeggios (remember the 80's? Andy Summers?) and the producer would watch the VU peak meter to see if all the notes had the same volume!

Anyway...it's alot easier nowadays but not much...time is still money and everybody expects a pro to play and sound like a pro...not like some spoilt rockstar kid.:6:

My friend spent endless hours practicing with a metronome, later with a drum machine...scales, songs, chord changes. And of course you HAVE to know how to read music...not tabs..pentagram.

It's a job...people usually go to school to get qualified...Berkley, G.I.T. are some of the places that teach you how to be a pro.

After reading your post, I am compelled to simpy tell you that your problem right out of the gate is the desire to have everything quot;perfectly uniformquot; in your recording. In other words, you're not seeing the forest through the trees.

The intent of recording is to capture what your band really SOUNDS like, including all the bum notes, if there are any. It's NOT a laboratory wherein you endeavor to make your music so quot;perfectly uniformquot; it actually doesn't sound like YOU anymore.

Think of it as a simple documentary of what you're doing musically at the moment, and utilize the technology only to the extent it enhances your vision musically. Don't go apesh*t. Think of the gear as just a giant stereo and all you are doing is taking a snapshot of what you already deem to be greatness - otherwise you wouldn't bother with the venture.

Don't worry; it's not as big as you think - it actually is REALLY fun. In fact, I live for it, more than playing out.

Good luck


Originally Posted by GoManoThe intent of recording is to capture what your band really SOUNDS like, including all the bum notes, if there are any. It's NOT a laboratory wherein you endeavor to make your music so quot;perfectly uniformquot; it actually doesn't sound like YOU anymore.

From my experience 95% of studio session players are exactly in that situation.

We are also talking radio a nd advertisng jingles, soundtracks, elevator music etc.

Than again, if you are recording your own stuff...you can do pretty much what you want...if it's not good nobody will buy it.

I personally prefer listening to quot;imperfectionsquot; in players and that is why I love live records, but the music quot;bizquot; has little time for that, from my experience.

To be clear, I'm not trying to become a studio musician or anything, just trying to be able to record things and have them sound good.

I guess my original post was not exactly what I wanted.

I don't wanna record something that is totally perfect, I don't wanna sound like Steve Vai or anything. I just wanna have the control that almost all recorded musicians I hear have. I don't want to be a robot. My playing, essentially, is just TOO un-uniform. I'll play something without really thinking about it, and then listening too it, it's off here and there. A change will be a tad too late, and if the bassline is the way it's supposed to be, the two will be off and sound sh|t.

Bassically I just want help getting extra control in my playing so that everything synchs up well in recording.

Thanks again,
Jacob

Ok...then it boils down to two things you can start doing immediately and you will see improvement very quickly.

1. transcribe solos ond riffs of your favourite layers and learn enough theory so you know what notes they were playing and why.
2. practice with a drum machine...don't EVER practice without a drum machine.

That should keep you going for some time...
Originally Posted by JacobTMTo be clear, I'm not trying to become a studio musician or anything, just trying to be able to record things and have them sound good.

I guess my original post was not exactly what I wanted.

I don't wanna record something that is totally perfect, I don't wanna sound like Steve Vai or anything. I just wanna have the control that almost all recorded musicians I hear have. I don't want to be a robot. My playing, essentially, is just TOO un-uniform. I'll play something without really thinking about it, and then listening too it, it's off here and there. A change will be a tad too late, and if the bassline is the way it's supposed to be, the two will be off and sound sh|t.

Bassically I just want help getting extra control in my playing so that everything synchs up well in recording.

Thanks again,
Jacob

Hi Jacob--bottom line is it will come with time. I started playing guitar in 1979, played with my first band in 1981 and recorded in my first studio in 1985. By 1985 all the quot;nervesquot; of playing were gone. My band went into the studio and actually had a TON of fun. We were already well rehearsed so we knew all our parts, had our timing down and then like Gomano said, it was basically just a snapshot in time of what and who we were as musicians. The best analogy I heard came from the recording engineer: Our singer was singing a line, and it was grammatically incorrect (of course--I wrote it!) and he was putting up a big beef about it for some reason after all this time singing it that way. The recording engineer, Greg Hatten said quot;hey man, it's rock amp; roll, it's not SUPPOSED to be perfect!quot; That has stuck with me for the past 20 years. The recordings just flew by after he said that and now recording is a lot of fun. Once music kinda becomes second nature is when it will all just fall into place so to speak.

Some of it may also be just how well you guys play together. I've played in some full bands that just didn't mix well, and sounded thin, and then with just me, another guitarist and drummer--no bass!--and sounded unreal. The quot;vibequot; just has to be there.

Merry Christmas amp; Happy Holidays, and I hope this helps.

I've noticed aswell that, you could be playing with a backing track and playing great, just jammin along. But as soon as you hit that record button a whole lot of pressure is put on to get a good take and has a real pyscological effect on you. Some of the best studio recordings i've done is when the engineer was recording and we didn't know he was. Just have fun and try and push the pressure aside and just let it rip.
Plus knowing your parts inside out cant do any harm. Really work out the rhythms and timing of your parts, dont rush changes, keep them in tempo. Recording pressure can add a nervousness to your playing, just keep your cool.

I know what you mean; it will go away with time. I'm assuming that your problem is getting things to sound nice, clean, and tight, like they should on a record? That only comes with hard work.

I had to go through alot of practice time to be able to quadtrack like I do (I track the rhythm parts twice on each side of the stereo field, ending up with 4 tracks of the same riffs). In order to do something like that, you have to be a very tight player.

The other thing you may be overlooking is that in many, many, many cases (mine for sure, and in most other metal producers), isntead of playing each song all the way through, or even each riff, we get one or two perfect takes and cut and paste then where they belong, and then crossfade between parts to avoid any popping or pauses. That, and compressors are a godsend .


Originally Posted by SoulmanFrom my experience 95% of studio session players are exactly in that situation.

We are also talking radio a nd advertisng jingles, soundtracks, elevator music etc.

Than again, if you are recording your own stuff...you can do pretty much what you want...if it's not good nobody will buy it.

I personally prefer listening to quot;imperfectionsquot; in players and that is why I love live records, but the music quot;bizquot; has little time for that, from my experience.

Well - I have alot to learn. I'm just starting out - the music quot;bizquot; is a big mystery to me...:-)


Originally Posted by JacobTMObviously, when you're recording, one bum note means you've gotta scrap the track.
For a good track with just the odd mistake, I just click in and click out on top of the mistake, and sometimes create a single track from multiple sessions.

I think most of it is knowing when it sounds bad, and having the skill to do it again with the right touch, phrasing, and dynamics. Recordings don't lie. It tells you exactly who you are. If you love what you hear, there's a lot of practice behind it. If you don't like what you hear, you know what you have to do.

The thing I have the hardest time with is that I'm a guitarist first and foremost, so if I bite off the task of being everything, I soon find my weakness is the inability to think like a drummer. You can buy a drum machine, but if you've been spoiled by having good drummers, it's hard to convey what you really want to sound like, using a machine. It's also a tremendous pain in the ass to count every beat and measure and fill, so that the rhythm track is laid out for your song. In that regard, you really DO have to approach the music very clinically.......very much like a math equation.

If your guitar parts or bass parts have inconsistent volume (sound loud and then quiet), use compressors and volume envelopes. Compressor makes loud parts quieter and quiet parts louder - so everything is, well, uniform.

I use Cakewalk Sonar 3.0 and I'm very happy with the tools in it.

If you can't quite pull off a part entirely on the guitar, then you probably haven't practiced it enough. Either practice more first, or record the part quot;piece-by-piecequot;, so that you can concentrate one section of the solo at a time.

Hope that helps.
Thanks


Originally Posted by theboatcandreamFor a good track with just the odd mistake, I just click in and click out on top of the mistake, and sometimes create a single track from multiple sessions.Ditto. Punch-ins are wonderful.


Originally Posted by matt_transitionI've noticed aswell that, you could be playing with a backing track and playing great, just jammin along. But as soon as you hit that record button a whole lot of pressure is put on to get a good take and has a real pyscological effect on you. Some of the best studio recordings i've done is when the engineer was recording and we didn't know he was. Just have fun and try and push the pressure aside and just let it rip.
Plus knowing your parts inside out cant do any harm. Really work out the rhythms and timing of your parts, dont rush changes, keep them in tempo. Recording pressure can add a nervousness to your playing, just keep your cool.

Unreal, right? When I was in my twenties and recording in studios, I never had a problem with that. When I was in a room and the band was there and the engineer etc..., I never got nervous. I actually played better!

Now I'm 42 and I record all alone and I put so much pressure on myself that I foul up as soon as I hit record, LOL. I could practice for an hour and nail it every time but as soon as I hit record, WHAM. mistake. WHAM, mistake. What the hell???

There's a great deal of useful information posted here! But my interpretation of your original post was on the consistency of volume. I too noticed this the first time I tried to record a song. The only advice I can give for homebrewed remedies is to record your own tracks and continue to record layers over them. Pick a cover song with which you are familiar and lay down the rhythm. Then pan it left and try it again with the second track panned right. This simple exercise will help you focus on consistent rhythm and volume while playing.

It is frustrating, but EXTREMEMLY fruitful when you start noticing the results pay off! There is nothing that fattens up a recording more than two layered tracks that were played from scratch each take.

Good Luck with it, and remember, when you take the joy out of it, question your motives.

Allen Gordon

I know exactly how you feel about these musicians who sound tight and super-clean on recordings. I was listening to the album quot;Back in Blackquot; the other day and noticed that even when Angus sounds like he's going off he's really in complete control. Same with Malcolm. Loose and tight at the same time. No bend falls flat or rises sharp, no chord falls out of step with the drum beat. It's frustrating and can make you feel discouraged, but based on your post it sounds to me more like you're motivated at the same time (or instead).

Here's an idea:

If you're recording onto a hard drive with a decent amount of free space as opposed to tape or discs (media that degrades with each re-recording or can be used just once) you have a nearly unlimited canvas for recording. That means you can record everything you do -- you'll just need to erase it later so you can keep recording yourself.

If that's what you've got, my suggestion is to record yourself *every time* you practice, maybe in one-hour blocks. Then listen to it, make mental notes, keep anything you like or feel may be useful later and erase the rest. Then do it again. Repeating the process of recording and listening to yourself achieves three things at the same time:It allows you to listen to yourself more objectively as opposed to listening to yourself as you're playing. This highlights imperfections and bright spots.
It gives you a chance to get to know little recording techniques on your own simply by spending time using your own equipment.
It will systematically desensitize you from any psychological blocks you may have that cause you to freeze up when the engineer in the studio booth says quot;We're rolling.quot; Playing when the tape's live will become familiar territory for you. The more you record yourself, the more comfortable you'll feel recording live. You'll be Angus in no time.
- Keith

good suggestions . . .