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I bought a bunch of caps from Blackrosecustoms. I find that the orange drops are fatter but more brittle and loos sounding. The Hovland are the quickest in resonse and most transparent. The Mallory seems to be a bit compressed and smaller sounding although very good sounding. What are your thoughts? I need oppinions to make my decision. I compared .022 on the Mallory and .023 on the orange drops and the Hovland. My favorite value was the .033 from Sprague but I wonder if Hovland or Mallory would be better in .033. Not sure if they even make them in that value. Anyone know? Thanks


Originally Posted by KLINKDETROITI bought a bunch of caps from Blackrosecustoms. I find that the orange drops are fatter but more brittle and loos sounding. The Hovland are the quickest in resonse and most transparent. The Mallory seems to be a bit compressed and smaller sounding although very good sounding. What are your thoughts? I need oppinions to make my decision. I compared .022 on the Mallory and .023 on the orange drops and the Hovland. My favorite value was the .033 from Sprague but I wonder if Hovland or Mallory would be better in .033. Not sure if they even make them in that value. Anyone know? Thanks

Are you saying you actually heard tonal differences in your guitar circuit using the different caps? I can't say as though I've experienced this phenomena,but I guess it is possible..

Yes. The Hovlands are more immediate and the malloryis a little thinner and compressed but sounds good. The Orange drops are thicker and have wider chunk peices but sounds a bit brittle. All with the tone all the way up.

I heard no such difference when I put a push/pull tone pot in my Strat that allowed me to switch back and forth between a .02 Sprague Orange Drop and a .02 Hovland Oil N Foil cap in real time. Lew


Originally Posted by LewguitarI heard no such difference when I put a push/pull tone pot in my Strat that allowed me to switch back and forth between a .02 Sprague Orange Drop and a .02 Hovland Oil N Foil cap in real time. Lew

Lew....Could be that we are both too old and our ears are shot? I Know some of the highs are gone in my case!


Originally Posted by STRATDELUXER97Lew....Could be that we are both too old and our ears are shot? I Know some of the highs are gone in my case!

I don't think so. I let a few players try that test Strat...some with much younger ears than mine! Whatever tonal diff there might be between the Hovland and Sprague are extremely subtle...so subtle I doubt that there is any! Certainly not the dramatic diff Klink is describing.


Originally Posted by LewguitarI don't think so. I let a few players try that test Strat...some with much younger ears than mine! Whatever tonal diff there might be between the Hovland and Sprague are extremely subtle...so subtle I doubt that there is any! Certainly not the dramatic diff Klink is describing.

I agree and it was my same findings...Alot of us have gone down this same road before,but it's good for the learning process.

What happened with me is this: I put a Hovland in my Strat and was blown away by the improvement.

Then I got to wondering if I was fooling myself so I put the push/pull tone pot in that would let me switch between a Hovland and a Orange Drop.

And it turned out I WAS fooling myself: there was no real difference in tone between the two after all. All just the power of suggestion...

How about switching between 0.022, 0.033 and 0.047 or 0.05 caps???Any real difference in tone other than a shift in the range?

I dont think thaere is a huge difference but maybe about 3% or 4%. I know it isnt a big difference but there definateletyis one as I had friends do a blind tase testLOL. And the same conclusions were had. I didnt tell them what was what and they still had the same outcome. Minor differences in the caps but there there. Ask Trace at Voodoo amps about my ear. First he will laugh and then reluctantly confirm that I know whats up when it comes to tone. I figure if you add up all the 4%-20% tone improvements then you will end up with the ultimate dream tone.

I just borrowed a buddies Furman power factor pro and it is a item to check out if your interested in improving your sound. It gives you all the clarity, mdynamics and harmonics your amp has as well as sustain for days and your chords are more intelligable especially on the highs. You have to re-adjust your settings to dial; out the highs while using it. It just gives you constant current and is worth every penny. I think it makes my tubes sound better as its supposed to be the correct flow of electricity for your amp. I already had a Furman line voltage regulator but this thing makes a way bigger difference than that model. You also get about 1 1/2 more gain on your dial.


Originally Posted by KLINKDETROITI dont think thaere is a huge difference but maybe about 3% or 4%. I know it isnt a big difference but there definateletyis one as I had friends do a blind tase testLOL. And the same conclusions were had. I didnt tell them what was what and they still had the same outcome. Minor differences in the caps but there there. Ask Trace at Voodoo amps about my ear. First he will laugh and then reluctantly confirm that I know whats up when it comes to tone. I figure if you add up all the 4%-20% tone improvements then you will end up with the ultimate dream tone.

I just borrowed a buddies Furman power factor pro and it is a item to check out if your interested in improving your sound. It gives you all the clarity, mdynamics and harmonics your amp has as well as sustain for days and your chords are more intelligable especially on the highs. You have to re-adjust your settings to dial; out the highs while using it. It just gives you constant current and is worth every penny. I think it makes my tubes sound better as its supposed to be the correct flow of electricity for your amp. I already had a Furman line voltage regulator but this thing makes a way bigger difference than that model. You also get about 1 1/2 more gain on your dial.Ask Trace about my ears also... And Trace will tell you this....quot;It's all goodquot;

KLINK: There may be an extremely subtle differance. But the thing is, unless you do the test in real time with a switch like I put in mine there is no way the ear can remember a tone from even 15 seconds ago, let alone remember it from yesterday or in the time it takes to disassemble a guitar, change the tone cap, and put it all back together. It's impossible. Lew

I did notice quite a difference between the stock orange disk caps and the cylindrical Mallories I put in mine. It's a smoother tone -- the disks sound brittle and edgy by comparison.

Keep in mind that I was a skeptic -- a cap is a cap is a cap -- beforehand so it was not a case of quot;hearing what I wanted to hearquot;.


Originally Posted by LewguitarKLINK: There may be an extremely subtle differance. But the thing is, unless you do the test in real time with a switch like I put in mine there is no way the ear can remember a tone from even 15 seconds ago, let alone remember it from yesterday or in the time it takes to disassemble a guitar, change the tone cap, and put it all back together. It's impossible. Lew
Exactly...A few of us have already done the cap/switch gig...

I think the big difference is between ceramic discs and any good cap, whether it's an Orange Drop, Hovland, or Whatever.

the good poly caps have resonance and harmonics - the ceramic discs are a little flat by comparison. It's a noticeable difference that I think anyone here would hear.

I kept the Les Pauls backplate off and it took me less than 30 seconds to change the cap. I am not claiming to be some tone guru but my friends do refer to me when in need of tone advice and I knows whats I likes LOL.

I think that I remember some OD technician or similar saying himself that their company makes a product that produces no different tone than that of major manufacturers.

If there really was a difference, I'd say that they'd advertise the hell out of it and that caps would be quite a bigger business.

It amazes me that people in the quot;knowquot; dont have a discernable ear enough to hear these minor yet real differences. I play my guitar more than I analyze it but still wonder why some people cant tell the differences. All in all caps is caps but if your happy with a any old car get a yugo if you want the best buy a BMW. The caps arent that drastic in sonic differences but I may go ahead and make some soundclips at my buddies house to prove my point and anyone who is interested in hearing them can email me. I imagine it wont be anytime within the next month but I plan on doing it ASAP.


Originally Posted by KLINKDETROITIt amazes me that people in the quot;knowquot; dont have a discernable ear enough to hear these minor yet real differences. I play my guitar more than I analyze it but still wonder why some people cant tell the differences. All in all caps is caps but if your happy with a any old car get a yugo if you want the best buy a BMW. The caps arent that drastic in sonic differences but I may go ahead and make some soundclips at my buddies house to prove my point and anyone who is interested in hearing them can email me. I imagine it wont be anytime within the next month but I plan on doing it ASAP.

I'd be very interested in hearing those clips. Post them here, I'll listen to them with an open mind!

Klink,
this is one of those endless discussions that pops up from time to time ...

actually, I don't doubt that you can hear 4% difference between caps - I've certainly known people that have more acute hearing than I do!

I haven't tested the difference between ODs and Mallories or Hovlands, but I've switched a ceramic cap for an OD, and the difference was pretty apparent.

here are Ken Fischer's comments that I've referred to before:

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quot;A personal note, never use a disc type cap in a guitar. They do not resonate right in a guitar circuit. A proper tone control should also add resonant tone as it is used, not simply flatten the high end.
I said, quot;Never use a ceramic disc as a tone cap in a guitarquot;. Of course the question became what I should use? I don't know!!! O.K., I do know! (You guys, and gals are sharp)
First capacitors come in multitude of types, values, and voltages. The Sprague Black Beauty, also known as quot;bumble bee capsquot;, are really great. Of course they don't make them any more.
I have heard that Gibson has had these caps made again for the 2003 Gibson Historics, but are not being as an aftermarket item. If you have a 50's Gibson, the .02 (really .022) Black Beauty was used. I used an old Fender value, Black Beauty in my Tele. It is a .047, (Fender calls for .05, which is for our purpose, the same thing). These caps were nicknamed Bumble Bee because they had color code bands around a black body. They look sort of like a giant Bumble bee.

Let's get to the important points of choosing a modern cap. First you want the correct value. Of course, feel free to try other values than traditional ones, if you are after something different. Most humbuckers use .022 (.020), and most single coils .05 (.047). You want separate film foil, not metallized types. Mylar and polyester film works better then polypropylene film.
Since pickups put out very low voltage, the voltage rating should not matter, but it does seem to have an affect. Traditional voltage values are commonly, but not always, 200 or 400 volt ratings.
The Black Beauty caps used in old guitars were typically the 400 volt type. Another interesting point is that, if you reverse the cap end to end, it will sound different in use. I jump mine in with test clips, run the tone control through its range, and use directions my ear choose. Also, if you have many of the same type, try a bunch of them. They will vary slightly from cap to cap. It's worth the time to choose one you really like with your gear.
Lastly, some people put a bright cap from hot to slider on the volume control. This is so the highs do not roll off when turning the control down. This is very amplifier/speaker dependent.
In any case, a silver mica type is my choice, if you use one. The value judged by ear, using your guitar with your amplifier. 30PF to 220PF is the most common range. Fender once did a Tele with a .001 (1000PF) --- OUCH! quot;
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as with a lot of things, you can find a great cap for a decent price, but some folks are driven to get that last little drop of tone no matter what the cost - more power to 'em.

the same thing is true in high end audio

I've said before in these threads that we end up spending more time talking about it than it's worth - an Orange Drop or Mallory is about $1, the Hovlands are what, $10?

ODs work fine for me, but if you can hear a difference, than use the more expensive caps - you might not be satisfied with anything less.