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I'm a beginner and I very rarely play cleans, unless when I just practise scales or chord. Most people say, 'play clean, it will be better as you'll hear your mistakes' but WOW... When the distortion is on, notes and harmonics JUMP out of the guitar (and yes the pickup is for a lot: The Jackson pickup was much less good with harmonics and less hot than the FullShred I now have, but it still made mistakes more apparent).
So the question I'm wondering is... With a high output pickup, isn't it better to learn WITH distortion? It will make you practise your muting techniques, and also have your brain fear all that time when you hear one of those wrong notes just when you thought you had it. If you use single coils or low output humbucker then I guess it's better to indeed play clean. I just think there's a certain 'level' of output after which the gain doesn't hide anything, but amplifies your mistakes.
Does anyone agree with this or has any contrary experiences?

It depends what kind of distortion, and how much gain. Very compressed high gain stomp boxes let you get away with murder. I think it's good to practice both ways, clean and dirty. What you learn playing clean is accurate and precise picking, fretting, etc. Distortion will indeed teach you muting well, put it lill let you be sloppy with pick attacks because it blurs together sometimes...

That's a good point about timing, I didn't really think of this.
Must be because I've been drumming for way longer

Use both, alot of people say practice just on cleans, but that leads to people not being able to control distortion and feedback, particually at volume. If all you are going to play is high gain metal, then it seems obvious to me that you should practice mostly with distortion, a mistake is a mistake, you can hear it with or without. I've always practiced with the same tone and amount of gain that i would use in a band situation, so i can hear what im really going to sound like.

Blimey Pierre, you're all over the place ! How are things turning out with your quest for the ultimate tiny Laney (and the pedal to boost it) ?

I agree with mr. PFDarkside on this one. A lot of distortion will hide any sloppy playing and will let you work on your muting, but a distorted mute is a lot easier to get right than a clean attack. Also, if you manage to squeeze out a good audible pinch harmonic clean, it'll certainly be great when distorted.

On a side note, not much talking practice here: When I was a blues musician, lost in a world of atmospheric dark metal band (I like to call it goth, the rest of the band hated that quot;labelquot;), I worte most stuff on an acoustic guitar or clean and quiet with an electric on my lap and a Marshall beside me when it was late at night.

Powerchords and massive distortion always sounds quot;goodquot;. With no distortion to cover your ass, you have to compose something, rather than writing down power chords.

So it is indeed good to practice both, but a guitarist who sounds good clean, will sound great distorted. Rarely the other way round.


Originally Posted by V!NSo it is indeed good to practice both, but a guitarist who sounds good clean, will sound great distorted. Rarely the other way round.

1.

I'm with you on this. Whenever I play clean, I experiment with chords and picking, I try to make up chords (not invent, just place my fingers and see how it sounds, picked or strummed)
I got an AOR 30 watts combo Muaha I can't wait. I'm such a gear whore though...
Anyhoo my main point was: sound wise, a distorted sound CAN help a beginner. Maybe not better than a clean sound, but in certain circumstances, it probably does.
Pinch harmonics can't really 'sound' clean, can they? I mean you do hear them, but it's more the lack of them. The strings mute and let a very whiny shriek. Pinching was one of the first things I learnt so I'm quite ok with this... or I hope.
Eh maybe it's time I consider the blackpanel model on my POD as my standard :P
And I'm not in the stage of writing yet I mean I do doodle like everyone but I just don't know enough I guess. I have a few chord progressions, half riffs... the usual.


Originally Posted by V!NSo it is indeed good to practice both, but a guitarist who sounds good clean, will sound great distorted. Rarely the other way round. Ever heard a jazz musician try to play through high gain!

And to think they look down on us lowly metal players....

P.S. - I'm with the other guys....I think it's important to practice at different gain levels.

You can do pinch harmonics on the clean channel, and have them be plenty loud. Its just much harder LOL....

Playing on cleans is good for practice, but if you plan on ONLY playing under high gain, then its probably best that you learn muting and feedback control.

I dont see how you could avoid being slopy tho if all you do is play on the high-gain channel.

i think starting on an acoustic for about a year is a great thing to do before going to electric. then when you start playing electric it feels like butter, and you never have any distortion to cover your ass on acoustic. although when learning electric, experimenting with both would be a great idea i think.


Originally Posted by screamingdaisyEver heard a jazz musician try to play through high gain!

And to think they look down on us lowly metal players....

Check out Allan Holdsworth and John McLaughin...scary stuff.

If anything I think it's harder to play with distortion. You have to be able to control the strings you're not using from ringing and accidently being hit. When playing clean this is hardly a problem.

Practice what you plan on doing.

When I started playing guitar it was for one reason: So i could write easy power chord riffs to accompany my lyrics and basslines. I'd been playing exclusively clean on my bass for a year and just wanted the mid-section of my songs to fill out so I got a BC Rich and a distortion pedal and started chuggachugging...and punk rockers think I'm great.

Now I've been playing a while and I'm getting bored, so now i sit with my book of chords and scales and just practice unplugged. Now that I'm focusing on the clean aspects (notes and chord shapes that you have to pay close attention to) I find distortion as more of a distraction.....not like I'm turning away from my roots tho.

But yeah a few dudes have said it already. If you want to be metal or punk or hardcore then turn the gain up and start chugging...if you want to be well-rounded, remember knobs are there for turning and start running some scales buddy.

-X


Originally Posted by screamingdaisyEver heard a jazz musician try to play through high gain!

Let me try my ES150 with your 5150 !

Clean and distorted...

You'll never learn as much about dynamics playing with a gained out tone... Your pick attack and dynamics will be far more noticable on a clean tone.

However, as people have mentioned, you have to be able to mute properly and control the guitar under high gain... that's why it's important to do both.

A good guitar player should be able to play both clean and dirty well. So, you should practice both. However, one word of caution; don't get sloppy just because distortion can hide some of your mistakes. A bad habit is very difficult to drop.

To me, clean isn't a practice tool, it's a different sound. I suppose practicing your playing on clean would help, but if you're not having fun doing it, find something that IS fun. The point is, I feel you might be missing out if you are only using the cleans to improve your distorted playing. You should give playing leads on clean sometime, not just for practice, but playing a song or composing a song. You may discover something you like in it.
I enjoy playing with distortion, clean, or (almost half the time) completely unplugged.