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so....in this little world of the boutique amps, which one do you think is the best to use for metal-hard rock tones?

yeah, people will say mesa is not a boutique amp but, as i undestand boutique amp brands, mesa seems like one of thosebogner uberschall:2 ch, 120w head, EL34 tubes, fx loop
mesa triple rectifier:3 ch, 150 w head, 6l6 tubes, parallel fx loop
diezel herbert:3 ch, 180w head, 6l6 and/or EL34, 1 parallel 1 midi fx loops

this is the basics of the 3 amps... but out of the specs or the price which one do you consider to be the best high gain amp...

btw if you can put a review also, feel free please...thanks a lot

I think you should replace EL84 with EL34

I've never heard a Herbert, but the Uberschall and Rectifier are not the best in my opinion. The Uberschall has a great Lead channel, but the clean channel isn't that good and it lacks versatilly. I've never been a fan of the newer Rectifiers (never heard the old ones, but they're supposedly better). Very hard to dial in a good sound and well the good is very relative if you ask me.

The best boo-teek high gainer I've ever played or owned is the VHT Ultralead, although the Koch Powertone II comes close. Massive tone, just the right amount of gain, but amazing clarity and completely unforgiving. Really if you think the Bogner XTC 101B's lead channel is unforgiving play this sucker, if you're a bad player you'll absolutely hate it, or you'll love it because it helps you figure out your common mistakes. If you're a good player you'll love it even more since it's so responsive you can hear almost every nuance of your playing. It is pretty stiff though, but that can easilly be dialed out.

Honestly, I don't like the Diezel's. They're cool and all, but holy **** you can get a better amp for half the price.

Metal/hardrock boutique amp? Bogner Ecstasy, no doubt.
Metal metal boutique amp? Framus Cobra or Bogner Uberschall
Metal metal amp without the insane pricetag? 5150. I know guys who have been through Road Kings, Soldanos, JCM800s, and Powerballs, and always come back to the 5150.

I'm not a huge fan of the triple rectos. Every bogner I have played has been great. The ecstasy wins hands down for me, although i love the shiva for just about everything non-metal. I've never really had a lot of experience with 5150's or diezels for that matter. I personally would love a splawn. Decently priced, awesome tone, and great service.

This is not what you want to hear (no pun intended), but this is a totally subjective question and the only way that you're going to know for sure is to go listen to or play through them. I love Boogie, but there are plenty of guys who love the others. None of them are bad, but the right one for you depends on you.

Heres what you should ask yourself... quot;Do I really need 120-150 watts of powerquot;?


Originally Posted by vinterlandHeres what you should ask yourself... quot;Do I really need 120-150 watts of powerquot;?

No, it's not! It's a sad fact that sometimes the best tone and the best features come only in 100w amps.


Originally Posted by DeadSkinSlayer3Honestly, I don't like the Diezel's. They're cool and all, but holy **** you can get a better amp for half the price.

Metal/hardrock boutique amp? Bogner Ecstasy, no doubt.
Metal metal boutique amp? Framus Cobra or Bogner Uberschall
Metal metal amp without the insane pricetag? 5150. I know guys who have been through Road Kings, Soldanos, JCM800s, and Powerballs, and always come back to the 5150.

oh i forgot the framus amps...but btw the full stack goes to 4500 $...

and about the 5150 it has to be that this amp sounds great when cranked but, souds like crap at quot;lowquot; volumes, cause i´ve tried it a couple times and never get happy with the sound...maybe i have to try it againOriginally Posted by vinterlandHeres what you should ask yourself... quot;Do I really need 120-150 watts of powerquot;?
yeah i don´t really need so much power, i had a dual recto, 100w, i sold it recently to go for a rack equipment (see sig) but i will pay 3000€ for the preamp and the power amp and was finding better options...btw...what do you think about 2 ch amps vs 3 ch amps? 2 ch amps use to be more solid or just because the classics has 2 ch, while the others have more modes and options, so more tones to find... and then a rack setup that goes progresive in that terms...

thanks for the replies

If you want the ultimate in versatility, go for the rack setup with a preamp and seperate power amp. If you want a good clean tone, a good dirty rhythm tone, and a good solo tone, go for the great-sounding two channel head or combo with a pedal to achieve the middle ground that is the dirty rhythm tone.

BTW, vinterland asked a great question. If your goal is to get a great overdriven tone, it just gets harder as you go up in wattage because it has to get louder to push the power amp with that much power. If you're not playing stadiums, 50 watts would probably do the job with room to spare.


Originally Posted by vinterlandHeres what you should ask yourself... quot;Do I really need 120-150 watts of powerquot;?

No.
You should ask yourself one question. And thats it.

quot; Does it sound good ? quot;

IMO - it doesnt matter what the f*** venues you play or how much wattage you need.
If it sounds good. It is good.

rectos aren't even in the same class with the other two, imo

in other words, the other two are much better =)


Originally Posted by HamerPlyrIf you want the ultimate in versatility, go for the rack setup with a preamp and seperate power amp. If you want a good clean tone, a good dirty rhythm tone, and a good solo tone, go for the great-sounding two channel head or combo with a pedal to achieve the middle ground that is the dirty rhythm tone.

BTW, vinterland asked a great question. If your goal is to get a great overdriven tone, it just gets harder as you go up in wattage because it has to get louder to push the power amp with that much power. If you're not playing stadiums, 50 watts would probably do the job with room to spare.

well, i was wondering why shouldn´t i buy the triaxis and a 2:50 over any other model...cause i´ve tried and play with the recto and got awesome tone...but i was looking for even more...thats why my teacher told me to go for the rack setup...but before i buy the equipment i have to be sure its what i a really need/want... i think i´ll try those amps (lucky of me, the shop has a herbert, uberschall, road king, cobra, 6505, etc etc) and then try again the rack...

about the power amp section i don´t look any further than 100 watts of power...but if they have more than 100w i can do nothing but use them...well, maybe the herbert is for a metallica live...but i consider 50 watts to be not enough..

1 for the ecstasy...it can go from clean to HEAVYIt also gives you a lot of control over the power amp, so you can cut down the power if you desire that


Originally Posted by GrandorNo.
You should ask yourself one question. And thats it.

quot; Does it sound good ? quot;

IMO - it doesnt matter what the f*** venues you play or how much wattage you need.
If it sounds good. It is good.

Your going to have a harder time making a 150 watt amp sound good when you can't even drive the power tubes.


Originally Posted by WaR HeaDi think i´ll try those amps (lucky of me, the shop has a herbert, uberschall, road king, cobra, 6505, etc etc)

If you'd done that earlier, now you wouldn't have needed to launch this thread...


Originally Posted by PeterkuIf you'd done that earlier, now you wouldn't have needed to launch this thread...

nah...easy words...i said i will try them...with time and pacience...
i can´t go there and tell the man at the shop, hey, i´ve come to try'em all!! ...so, go putting them in a row...alphabetical order please

but like a lot of things i´ll try one this week, maybe...er, another one next month...and so on...but if i have things clear i don´t even need to try them...


Originally Posted by Neeradj.

The best boo-teek high gainer I've ever played or owned is the VHT Ultralead, although the Koch Powertone II comes close. Massive tone, just the right amount of gain, but amazing clarity and completely unforgiving. Really if you think the Bogner XTC 101B's lead channel is unforgiving play this sucker, if you're a bad player you'll absolutely hate it, or you'll love it because it helps you figure out your common mistakes. If you're a good player you'll love it even more since it's so responsive you can hear almost every nuance of your playing. It is pretty stiff though, but that can easilly be dialed out.

The Ultralead is great for fast, shredding type stuff as it tracks super tight....but it's almost solid state in it's feel and doesn't have the same sag and note blossom as slower amps.


Originally Posted by WaR HeaDbtw...what do you think about 2 ch amps vs 3 ch amps? 2 ch amps use to be more solid or just because the classics has 2 ch, while the others have more modes and options, so more tones to find... and then a rack setup that goes progresive in that terms...

From all the research I've done (I've never played a 3ch, only various 2ch)you'd need to A/B them beside each other to tell the difference, and even then the differences are only slight, and you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference in a band mix.

The second channel on the 3ch sounds pretty much identical to the orange (vintage) and red (modern) channels on the 2ch.

The third channel on the 3ch has much more presence, which was done largely because people complained that the 2ch wasn't cutting through the mix.So, long and short.....a 2ch may sound a bit darker and smoother when used by itself, but it doesn't cut through a band as well as the newer 3ch.

Soldano is KING of boutique metal amps! hope i can grab one soon!

Here's the real king. The Brainchild of Reinhold Bogner, the original white chassis metalfront Ecstasy #32 w/all the options ever offered by Bogner. You'd have to cut my arm off to get this amp away from me.