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I was playing most of my guitars tonight, and a thought crossed my mind.
Most of my guitars needed reslotted nuts, better action and intonation jobs, which either I or a luthier did. Why? I paid good money for them.

I've actually talked to a Gibson AND Martin rep, and their excuse was that they make a lot of guitars that are for professional use, and professionals usually like to have the final setup done to taste. I don't buy it! There's lots of ways to set your action, but nuts should be cut for optimum playability with minimal fret buzz. You usually don't even get dressed frets till your spending over $2000.

So far, the companies that have impressed me the most, regarding setup, are PRS, Schecter, Washburn, Carvin, Godin, Tacoma, Dean, most Taylors, and most high dollar Fenders.

What's the excuse of the rest? My Gibsons all needed nut work. Most of my Gamp;L's too. Fenders are marginal....they usually need a proper setup off the rack. Martins have action like the Golden Gate Bridge. Ibanez usually needs a trussrod adjustment, due to the skinny necks warping on the wallhanger. Yamaha's and Guilds usually need the action lowered. Lot's of budget guitars have saddle slots that are cut off center, so some strings are spaced wrong!

Of course, it's all a matter of taste, but I'll give credit to those companies who's guitars leave the factory playing beautifully. It makes me wonder how many people dislike perfectly good guitars, just because the initial setup was terrible?

Maybe this is why I can only see Les Pauls as firewood.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I think maybe it could be people are just way lazy and after building a whooole dern guitar they don't wanna get their noses all dusty filing precise slots. I mean after I assembled my Warmoth and set it up the best I could, i still wanted to take it to a pro to have it perfected...i dunno, maybe it's a matter of taste or maybe big guitar corporations don't care about us

-X

Les Pauls are far from firewood, but I'd like to meet the guys who do the final setup and inspection and hand them a Samick and ask them why they can't setup a $2600 guitar as good as a $260 guitar.

All new Gibsons have the nut cut too high in my experience. Someone tried to tell me it's because some players like a high action, so they don't like to cut them too low. Yeah right, some players love to hear all their open chords way out of tune!

When I was last out guitar shopping, all the new Gibsons I tried had setups that rendered them pretty much unusable. Fender setups were pretty good. I tried a few JJ Guitars and they were perfectly set up and ready to rock. No excuses Gibson!

Poor workmanship aside (as that's a different issue) IMO a guitar needs to be setup by the user to their liking, and not generically from the factory. Not only that, I think its reasonable that one would need to setup their guitar regardless if they receive it shipped to them. Bouncing around, changes in temperature and humidity during travel all affect the setup. I find it a bit naive to expect to have a guitar shipped to you and be perfectly set up and intonated to your liking. It might happen on rare occasions, but the majority of the time, the guitar could benefit from a setup once it arrives to you.

At the very least the shop selling it should set it up halfway decent. If your dropping a couple of hundred dollars or more on a BRAND NEW guitar, it shouldnt buzz, and you shouldnt have to take it back to have frets levelled or nuts lowered. Ive been looking for a strat, and not one has played properly. Walked out of one place when the neck was slight crooked, and the sales guy tried to convince me thats normal.

The people that work in music shops, rather than feel jaded that their music career never took off, and looking disgusted at anyone that comes into their store to try a guitar, should set them up.

My 2 cents. Cheers lads


Originally Posted by TattooedCarrotPoor workmanship aside (as that's a different issue) IMO a guitar needs to be setup by the user to their liking, and not generically from the factory. Not only that, I think its reasonable that one would need to setup their guitar regardless if they receive it shipped to them. Bouncing around, changes in temperature and humidity during travel all affect the setup. I find it a bit naive to expect to have a guitar shipped to you and be perfectly set up and intonated to your liking. It might happen on rare occasions, but the majority of the time, the guitar could benefit from a setup once it arrives to you.

I don't think GJ meant they should all be set to his exact spec, but that there's no excuse for a $200 guitar to play better than a $2000 guitar. Is it naive to expect all guitars to play exactly the way I want them? Of course. However, it's not naive to expect a guitar in the two grand range to play well.

My Gamp;L needed some work, but that was only because I restrung it with 11's.

I have an Ibanez that really needed some work before I even took it home. I liked everything about it, but it just needed fine touches to make it truly fit me.


Originally Posted by drjonesAt the very least the shop selling it should set it up halfway decent. If your dropping a couple of hundred dollars or more on a BRAND NEW guitar, it shouldnt buzz, and you shouldnt have to take it back to have frets levelled or nuts lowered. Ive been looking for a strat, and not one has played properly. Walked out of one place when the neck was slight crooked, and the sales guy tried to convince me thats normal.

The people that work in music shops, rather than feel jaded that their music career never took off, and looking disgusted at anyone that comes into their store to try a guitar, should set them up.

My 2 cents. Cheers lads

1....This has been my issue for a while.

They come from the factory amp; get shipped to all points on the globe...different shippers amp; weather conditions can create havoc.

Most shops probably go no further than unpacking them amp; looking to see that it isn't in a million pieces....then hang it on a wall to be pawed over by would be purchasers amp; tire kickers.

How many times have you gone into a GC (I use them because thet deserve a good kick in the nuts...daily!), picked up an axe covered in fingerprints, dust, rusted strings amp; out of tune? Do they honestly think someone is gonna buy that ???

To me, it's the stores responsibilty to make amp; keep a guitar generically quot;playablequot; amp; if anything, set it up to your liking with new strings before you walk out the door....and yes, even ESPECIALLY on that Squier some kid is gonna learn on!!! If it plays like sh!t, they'll sound like sh!t amp; never pick the thing up again.....and there goes a customer you'll never see again!

Every Schecter I've ever played, including my $299 006 Deluxe, has had perfectly level frets, a perfectly cut nut, and perfect intonation right from the factory. The only adjustments I've had to make are adjusting bridge height and adjusting pickup height. That's what puts them head and shoulders over the rest of the guitar market. If you want to take it ever farther, even the cheap ones have neat wiring and shielded control cavities.

Oh, and Rondo claims that Agiles get a by-hand fret job before being shipped.

I was looking for a blonde Tele last year. A new one came in and I went to look at it .... the action was at least 1/4quot; high out of the box!!! It was unplayable ... sorry, no sale.

the problem is that I've learned over the years that some guitars just never seem to get quite quot;therequot;, set up wise, so unless they play half way decent, I have to pass

My one and only guitar which was probably a couple hundred $ guitar (It was a £250 package with, cables etc.) seemed to be set-up pretty well. Admittedly it is my first guitar but now I'm a bit more experienced it stills seems pretty good. I think the only slight problem was one screw one of the saddles was a bit low. I always thought compared too mates guitars that the fretboard felt nicer. Smooth frets, no buzz unless you really whack the strings. The intonation was about in as well I think. It's an Aria STG-004 if anybody's interested.


Originally Posted by GearjoneserIt makes me wonder how many people dislike perfectly good guitars, just because the initial setup was terrible?

That is a very good point, it must be quite a lot...


Originally Posted by GearjoneserI was playing most of my guitars tonight, and a thought crossed my mind.
Most of my guitars needed reslotted nuts, better action and intonation jobs, which either I or a luthier did. Why? I paid good money for them.

I've actually talked to a Gibson AND Martin rep, and their excuse was that they make a lot of guitars that are for professional use, and professionals usually like to have the final setup done to taste. I don't buy it! There's lots of ways to set your action, but nuts should be cut for optimum playability with minimal fret buzz. You usually don't even get dressed frets till your spending over $2000.

So far, the companies that have impressed me the most, regarding setup, are PRS, Schecter, Washburn, Carvin, Godin, Tacoma, Dean, most Taylors, and most high dollar Fenders.

What's the excuse of the rest? My Gibsons all needed nut work. Most of my Gamp;L's too. Fenders are marginal....they usually need a proper setup off the rack. Martins have action like the Golden Gate Bridge. Ibanez usually needs a trussrod adjustment, due to the skinny necks warping on the wallhanger. Yamaha's and Guilds usually need the action lowered. Lot's of budget guitars have saddle slots that are cut off center, so some strings are spaced wrong!

Of course, it's all a matter of taste, but I'll give credit to those companies who's guitars leave the factory playing beautifully. It makes me wonder how many people dislike perfectly good guitars, just because the initial setup was terrible?

This may be one of the very best posts Ive ever read. I couldn`t agree with you more. I wish alot of the manufacturers would read your comments. Great post!

I have ordered two Korean Tokai Teles online, both arrived with perfect set up. A complete and unexpected bonus. It makes sense to have a solid set up IMO, makes sales all the more easier. Many GC axes in particular just feel awful in the hands.


Originally Posted by kevlar3000I have ordered two Korean Tokai Teles online, both arrived with perfect set up. A complete and unexpected bonus. It makes sense to have a solid set up IMO, makes sales all the more easier. Many GC axes in particular just feel awful in the hands.

I totally agree on the GC comment. Every dang guitar I play at GC feels like crap. I seriously think they get factory seconds to sell. One Fender guitar I played had 2 Duncan Designed pickups, and the neck was hotter than the bridge - I think they dropped them in the wrong places. Wouldn't they sell more items if their guitars played great? I've passed up strats, les pauls, etc., just because they feel horrible and I didn't want to just assume after a setup it would be great. I ain't no fortune teller. They need to hire techs that do nothing but make their guitars play great. Most of the time, when I ask the salespeople any questions at all, I know more than they do, and that's not saying a whole lot.

i have not found a guitar that plays better than my schecter (aside from other schecters) right quot;off the rackquot;. i gave it more tweaks to the setup but that's just me. however, if i never touched the setup i could have gigged with it and been fine. i still don't get how a $5XX guitar blows away guitars double or more the price, i think i need to own more schecters hahaha.

-Mike

I can completely agree with GJ.

connecting :

Last week I played a $350 Godin Detour.
It is kinda cheap but it's the best stock guitar I've played in years, schooling 3x 4x 5x more expensive guitars

Peaveys setups are impressive!! most of the $500 and up models I have played are butter off the hanger!!!

One we haven't mentioned yet.... but my Mockingbird was PERFECT when I picked it up in GC, which is partly the reason I was so attracted to it - it played like a dream. Beautifully low action with no buzz at all. Nut was cut very well for the strings it had on it and the frets all seemed level (as level as you can tell through a visual and fingertip inspection). Neck had just the right amount of relief in it, too. I was very impressed. Of course that all changed the minute I got it home into a different interior climatic environment and restrung it with 10s (it came with 9s) - but that's understandable. Point is, it was literally perfect right off the shelf (and I'm assuming out of teh box since GC doesn't set them up).

Generally speaking, if you show a salesman that a guitar is majorly out of whack, they generally do what they can to fix it. I bought my HWY1 that way... was not impressive off teh wall, but with a turn here and adjustment there, we got it more than playable and he made his sale. Not that that has anything to do with the Fit amp; Finish from the plant...

I can understand one's frustration regarding a poorly cut nut. Given all guitars must have a nut cut, and a properly cut nut is one of many variables in having a properly set up guitar, I would expect all companies to ensure the quality of the cut in regards to depth and the gage of string they wish to supply on the guitar. Should you wish to use a different size string, that's your problem. That's where I sympathize with GJ. Where I don't see eye to eye is in the factory set up. No matter where the guitar was manufactured, you can't estimate factors such as temperature and humidity, nor can you account for what may happen in shipping. It would be impossible to purposely set up a guitar perfectly in the factory and ensure it's playability remains constant no matter where it was shipped.