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Hey folks,

I'm looking to finally say goodbye to gibson pups. I've got an '02 Les Paul standard that I've been through the mill with. For some stupid, almost juvenile reason, I felt it important to keep the thing loaded with Gibson pups...since it was a gibson. When I first got the guitar, I had a real problem with the stock BBVs. Although I felt the neck pup was too muddy, The bridge pup was the serious problem. First off, it did not balance well with the rest of the guitar. It needed some more output to balance the neck. on top of that, it was very shrill, ice-pick to the eyeballs, shrill.

I replaced the BBV's with a 490R/498T set which, balance wise, was a huge improvement...but the pickups individually left me feeling like I was wanting more. I played the guitar with those pups for about a year...

Then, I went and did the stupidest thing I've ever done with this guitar....I ordered a set of BB Pros in an effort to 'return the guitar to stock' because somewhere deep down...well, I can't explain it...I felt better about myself with the guitar having those pickups in there....please feel free to rip and flame me all you like, I certainly deserve it...

Now, having said that, the replacement BBPros weren't as bad as the original BBVs. The shrillness in the bridge pup wasn't as severe and and the balance issue is again, not as severe....however, after living with these pups in the guitar for over a year, I'm starting to consider a change. I know this guitar is capable of so much more...and it's not worth it keeping bad pups in there...

I'm looking at the whole spectrum of pups out there....Some of the tones I'm looking to grab out of this guitar include Skynyrd, Allmans, Clapton but also include higher gain stuff like Schon, VH, etc...Not to draw this out (I know, too late!) I need something beefier than my BBPro bridge...I want something clearer and sweeter than the existing neck as well.

I've noticed that the bandwagon pickups these days are the WCR Fillmores and Crossroads...but at almost 300 bucks per set, I've gotta be smoking some serious crack to want to jump into that pool.

I've also been thinking of the JB/59 set or the Dimarzio Virtual HOT PAF/PAF set.....The JB might be too hot for me...but I certainly loved the pickup when I had one in an ibanez RG back in the 80s....

Can you guys throw me some additional suggestions?

Anything at all is welcome...I just need to get rid of the BB Pros...

-Frank

I do not know the WCR's too well, though my friend raves about them. I might agree from sound samples. You might consider the Rio Grande BBQ set, though the bridge BBQ model might be in the JB vein. The JB is a great lead pickup but NOT an open sounding pickup.

I personally like the quot;mudquot; of BB's (Not the pros), I only hate that Gibson does NO custom work for woking musicians like me, or that there are no 4 conductor wirings or wax potting on them (thru a Soldano it will squeal, and I just like to be able to special order things.)

If you want the quot;studio soundquot;, really smooth and right on the money use the Virtual/VHOT PAFs. They are so articulate, and smooth, but the midrange signature makes them AMAZINGLY effective in sounding smooth and fast so you can do sweet leads even in the neck. I might even go hotter in the bridge if that suits you. They will be sweeter and feel quot;fasterquot; etc etc than even the 490s. They have a great recording tone right out of the box.

If you want something ultra open, sweet, and spongy go Alnico 2 Pro - however, they might be the quot;mudquot; you do not like. More of the 490 type sound only with an SD flavor attached. I happen to love them. I also love the Alnico 2 Pro/CC which I have just started using. Although the Customs can be a tad compressed, they are great for Santana and Neil Schon styled rock. Sweet and singing, not too tight in the low end, and they give you ballsy leads since it has great mids. It has lower mids and a sweet top as opposed to a JB which is more aggressive in the upper mids and top (almost like a fat tele-esque humbucker with HIGH output, if that makes any sense) when you are in mid gain.

I will tell you, the most open and sweet sounding pickup I have heard, which is almost a hybrid in tone between the Virtual PAFs and the Duncan PAF styles are the NORDSTRANDS. They are smooth and fast and sound really huge. Right now I am using Duncans, but I might one day move to Nords or Rios.

I was thinking The custom line... like Olin said They are sweet and singing but at the same time aggresive and kinda searing.

Custom custom bridge and APII neck. You will be in heaven.

Shrug..I like the BB pros....but some sets are better than others for sure...

The set in my current Paula sounds like a cross between a Duncan PG and DiMArzio SuperD...which is just about perfect AFAIC. They are a bit more quot;metalquot; than most vintage type PAFs but I like and want that.

BTW..aftermarket BB1/2/3s are wax potted....

As for suggestions...If you think BBs are shrill, you better stay away from the JB. Custom is a better match in a Paula, but it's a hard rock/metal pickup too...59s are good..bright and twangy,not much in the way of mids, and a little tubby, but smooth...too smooth for me. Seths are also smooth and a bit warmer than 59s.

If money is no issue...go Bareknuckles.

Antiquities!

B


Originally Posted by JeffBAs for suggestions...If you think BBs are shrill, you better stay away from the JB. Custom is a better match in a Paula, but it's a hard rock/metal pickup too...59s are good..bright and twangy,not much in the way of mids, and a little tubby, but smooth...too smooth for me. Seths are also smooth and a bit warmer than 59s.

Well, I had a JB in a different les paul a few years ago....and I was able to do a direct comparison, the JB did not sound shrill compared to the BBV. It had alot of girth...

I dunno, I really want to think this out, because I want to forget about swapping pickups on this guitar and just play it...if I wasn't going to be deliberate, I'd just put in a JB/59 and be done with it....

But I really want to give this some serious thought...

-Frank

I had the same opinion as you with the BBVs, got a set of Pearly Gates - guitar sorted!
Though, if I'm honest I'm thinking of getting some WCR Crossroads. HHhmmm.....


Originally Posted by OlinMusic...If you want the quot;studio soundquot;, really smooth and right on the money use the Virtual/VHOT PAFs. They are so articulate, and smooth, but the midrange signature makes them AMAZINGLY effective in sounding smooth and fast so you can do sweet leads even in the neck...They have a great recording tone right out of the box.

1

Also, they are VERY quiet and do NOT squeal.

Custom 5/59 Nickelcovered. Powerful, clear, big tight bottom end, open highs.

CC/APII Nickelcovered. Powerful, sweet, thick mids, no shrill high end with tone all the way up.

Seths or Antiquities. Pure sweet vintage tone.

First, as Olin can now testify, try a heavier pick on the BB Pros. I recommend the Dunlop 2mm stubbies, but any thick, solid pick that doesn't bend will instantly give you a bigger, wider tone. (It will also allow you to play faster, believe it or not.) I don't know that I've sold him on the big pick yet, but he heard and acknowledged the bigger tone they give you.

If you have a pick that bends even the slightest bit, it is just too wimpy to give you a big tone -- so you'll spend a lot of money looking for the right pickup that sounds big without being muddy. It drives me nuts to see players using picks not much thicker than paper while complaining they can't get that big rude sound!

Second, if that doesn't work, I highly recommend a Jon Moore pickup. He'll wind you any spec you want with any magnet you want. I now have two of his pickups, one 7.6k and the other 11.2k, I can tell you that his signature tone regardless of spec is mids that are very complete (quot;fullquot; implies muddy -- his mids have no spikes or hollow spots) but very transparent and woody -- and very dynamic, not compressed at all.

I dont know..I play darn thin picks and have no prob with getting big tone from BB pros...? They do make for a quot;darkerquot; tone though....less highs...

I have found tho..and it strikes me as odd...the lower you set them the more shrill they are...closer to the strings is better...roll the poles flat and even across the pup and raise the whole thing up..I was not happy with little harshness I was hearing on a clip I put up recently so tonight I raised mine 3 more turns as an experiment, and they smoothed out a tad, and opened/cleared up..

they do vary quite a bit though..as do the guitars themselves...if your paula is naturally bright..yeah they wont sound too good...my faded has ALOT of low end...and is not overly bright....they sound pretty good.

59s I like in the right guitar...in my Hamer I dont care for them at all...they totally crap out under high gain unlike other PAF styles I've tried. I still like the newer Gibson PAF pickups for the most part :shrug:

Antiquities

Frank, what did you end up with in your LP???? Sound slike you would like that new 10k Duncan or something similar.

Also, the thought on heavier strings and picks makes a difference. I use 1.4 mm Pyramid picks and would like to go heavier if I found something similar in a heavier gauge.

bump

For a REAL nasty sounding pick, try grinding a Mexican 50 peso coin or similar to shape like Billy Gibbons did. Brian May also used a copper coin of some kind. I talk with the guys at SD and i think i am going with the custom shop Peter Green pups in my R9. They said that they are somewhere between a Seth and an Antiquity in sound, but with the reversed magnet on the neck for that funky out of phase sound in the midle position.


Originally Posted by papersoulFrank, what did you end up with in your LP???? Sound slike you would like that new 10k Duncan or something similar.

Also, the thought on heavier strings and picks makes a difference. I use 1.4 mm Pyramid picks and would like to go heavier if I found something similar in a heavier gauge.

Paper,

I haven't done anything with the Les yet...I'm currently in a holding patern, as I'm currently completing an 18watt TMB build (and a compressor build)...So I want to see how the burstbuckers take to the 18watt, before writing them off. I'm not happy with the way it reacts to my other two amps...but the 18watt might like the gibson with the BBPros...

I've learned the hard way, not to make more than 1 change to the rig....so I'm going to wait till the amp and compressor is done before yanking the BBpro's for good...

I'll keep you guys in the loop. If they go, they will most likely go for a JB/59 set...

-F

ON behalf of ZHANG I will testify... lol
I bought the stubbies, though I sing so much I am not ready to make any switches - I cannot throw my flow off, one cannot think about ANYTHING while singing and playing the way I have to.

I will also add the Moore's are VERY OPEN sounding. I would prefer the standard BB's though they are not potted.

Sell the silly Gibson and buy a Cort Katana :6:
and with the money saved buy some dream humbuckers :6:


Originally Posted by strangegreySome of the tones I'm looking to grab out of this guitar include Skynyrd, Allmans, Clapton but also include higher gain stuff like Schon, VH, etc

Antiquities or Seth Lovers