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I know what it is, but having never played a Seth or others, (59 is as close as Ive gotten) What tone is the target? I mean what defines the sought after paf tone? I have one pup that is supposed to be PAF and the tone is much like a single coil with no hum. Why is this tone so sought after ? Im just curious. Thanks!


Originally Posted by BloodRoseI know what it is, but having never played a Seth or others, (59 is as close as Ive gotten) What tone is the target? I mean what defines the sought after paf tone? I have one pup that is supposed to be PAF and the tone is much like a single coil with no hum. Why is this tone so sought after ? Im just curious. Thanks!

clean, open. sparkly,transparent, there a special bloom to the note after it is picked i hear from guys who play the real deal
i like all that but i want one with more output

It really depends on who you ask because the original PAF's varied quite a bit in DC resistance (anywhere from 7k to 11k, though most were in the 7.5 to 8.5 range) and wind pattern due to hand-winding, and they used whatever Alnico magnets were available at the time, 2, 3, 4, and 5.

The only real PAF I ever played through had a distinctive quot;barkquot; or quot;honkquot; to it, very Pagey, especially when played clean. A friend had one in his 59 Historic LP. I don't know what the specs were on it but it sounded pretty overwound, I would guess 9k, maybe more. I would bet it also had either an Alnico 4 or 5 to complete the fullness of the tone.

I also saw Andy Summers at the Baked Potato a couple of years ago and he was playing his '59 ES-335. His bridge pickup had that same bark to it, so to make a long story medium-length, that barking/honking tone is quot;the PAF soundquot; to me, for whatever that's worth.


Originally Posted by roadstar IIclean, open. sparkly,transparent, there a special bloom to the note after it is picked i hear from guys who play the real deal
i like all that but i want one with more output

The bloom is usually more associated with the Les Paul that it's in than the pup itself. SGs/335s even with old PAF's have much less if any of that note quot;bloomquot; (IME)

As for the intital question...heh..We could fill up 20 pages on this thread, and no-one would agree what *THE* PAF sound is. Some like the a5 mag. Some the a2. Some like the mismatched coils, some don't. Most PAF gurus will argue 8.2K vs 8.4 K output for hours on end.

I think basically it's the sound from whomever that's most pleasing to the ear of the individual that determines what is the quot;bestquot; PAF...for that individual...could be Duane..Could be Eric..Could be Bloomfield...or ****ey...or Angus...or Frampton or, or or or or....

In terms of a rock or blues tone, you're hearing 50's Gibson pafs when you listen to Mike Bloomfield playing his subburst Les Paul on the Electric Flag or East/West album...also Eric Clapton on Fresh Cream or John Mayall/Bluesbreakers...or Peter Green with Fleetwood Mac or John Mayall, especially the cut: Supernatural...or Billy Gibbons when he's playing his old Les Paul: Pearly Gates.

Gibson pafs from the 50's originally were designed by Seth Lover with an alnico 2 magnet and the Duncan Seth Lover is about as close to an quot;averagequot; but new 50's paf tone as you'll find. The Duncan Antiquity is about as close to a 50 year old paf tone as you'll find.

The Duncan '59 is like a '59 or early 60's paf or humbucker and uses alnico 5 for the magnet. It's a tone with less mids but more bass and treble than the earlier alnico 2 paf.

Gibson didn't pay much attention to the magnets used in the pafs. The magnet could be alnico 2, alnico 4 or alnico 5...and each magnet makes the paf sound a little differant.

Most of the real pafs I've owned had a tone like the alnico 2 Antiquity or Seth: smooth highs and lots of mids.

I think the '57 version probably did use alnico 2 most of the time but that by '59 Gibson had pretty much switched to alnico 5 and by '60 all were alnico 5.

Lew

IIRC Mike Bloomfield used a P-90 LP Goldtop with Electric Flag. i might be wrong though.


Originally Posted by bryvincentIIRC Mike Bloomfield used a P-90 LP Goldtop with Electric Flag. i might be wrong though.

Bloomfield traded his mid 50's P90 equipped Gold Top Les Paul to Dan Erlewine for the famous late 50's humbucker equipped Sunburst Les Paul he used with Electric Flag and on the Super Session album. He also played a Tele and once in a while a Strat. Lew