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I want to change the crappy looking plastic knob stock keys on my LP studio. would adding Grovers require drilling?? Thanks

I dont know, but grovers are darn good tuners

I bought an LP that had after-market Grovers, and it looked to have more holes around the tuners. I don't know if that technically means drilling.

Depends. Seems like most of the newer Gibsons will take the Grover posts without requiring you to ream out the holes, however, the screw holes DO NOT line up. You have 2 screws on the Kluson type tuners, and only one for the Grovers. Most folks don't mind, but it will not look stock.

There are a set of Kluson type tuners that are locking and fit the existing screw holes. They still have the plastic knobs, but they are of better quality.


Originally Posted by Jeff_HDepends. Seems like most of the newer Gibsons will take the Grover posts without requiring you to ream out the holes, however, the screw holes DO NOT line up. You have 2 screws on the Kluson type tuners, and only one for the Grovers. Most folks don't mind, but it will not look stock.

There are a set of Kluson type tuners that are locking and fit the existing screw holes. They still have the plastic knobs, but they are of better quality.

Have the same experience. I don't mind the extra holes, as the Grovers are so much better.

how old is it?

my '90 LP studio came with grover rotomatics. I switched to the locking rotomatics with no modification. if you say there are plastic knobs, this probably wont be the case for you, because I assume yours is a bit newer than mine

It is a 2004 model. I know the screw holes wont match, Ive seen this mod done on lots of them.. My Explorer came with Grovers. I just dont want to have to ream out the holes and risk busting the headstock..

grovers are better than the plastic keys on gibsons? this is an honest question. i've always wondered abt this. this thread reminded me of it. hope someone can answer this.
does that mean that the tuners on most of the epis are better than those on most of the gibbies?


Originally Posted by pac112grovers are better than the plastic keys on gibsons? this is an honest question. i've always wondered abt this. this thread reminded me of it. hope someone can answer this.
does that mean that the tuners on most of the epis are better than those on most of the gibbies?
Well first, I think the plastic keys are ugly. (my personal opinion) Second, they break easier than a metal part would if you bump it or god forbid, it should fall over. Plus, I like the sealed back tuners. I dont know how well the Klusons work, but Ive always found sealed back keys like the Grovers, have a finer gear ratio for more accurate tuning.

I know you said you would rather not have to bore out the holes, but in case it comes to that, here are some suggestions. Boring out the hole is not that big of a deal, but you have to have a good drill bit. Also, if you use a cordless drill, make sure it is fully charged. A dull bit or a weak drill WILL crack the headstock.


Originally Posted by LesStratBoring out the hole is not that big of a deal, but you have to have a good drill bit. Also, if you use a cordless drill, make sure it is fully charged. A dull bit or a weak drill WILL crack the headstock.

I can vouch for that. I didn't completely crack the headstock, but I did take a chunk out of the front of the headstock when reaming for my sperzels (on my Ibanez, not the LP). Bit was brand new, the drill had decent charge. I simply think that the cordless drills don't have enough torque to keep the bit spinning fast enough unless it's an 18v.

Of course, the best way to do it would be with a drill press if you have access to one. Second would be a plug-in drill. Go slow and take caution to be sure the drill is square to the headstock.

edit: when did Gibson stop putting Grovers on LP Studios? My 2000 Studio came stock with Grovers, so it has to be a recent change.


Originally Posted by MikeSI can vouch for that. I didn't completely crack the headstock, but I did take a chunk out of the front of the headstock when reaming for my sperzels (on my Ibanez, not the LP). Bit was brand new, the drill had decent charge. I simply think that the cordless drills don't have enough torque to keep the bit spinning fast enough unless it's an 18v.

Of course, the best way to do it would be with a drill press if you have access to one. Second would be a plug-in drill. Go slow and take caution to be sure the drill is square to the headstock.

edit: when did Gibson stop putting Grovers on LP Studios? My 2000 Studio came stock with Grovers, so it has to be a recent change.

My understanding of the process in reaming out peg-holes is to use a reamer like those used to do violin holes. Using a drill would be too risky on an expensive guitar, or any for that matter, as MikeS said in his post concerning his Ibanez's headstock. You get that drill-bit jammed in that hole a little too much and you may end up with a cracked headstock and a major repair bill. I used a tapered fine grinding bit with a variable-speed Dremel once to do the ones in my Epi LP successfully, and although the wood around the hole did get pretty hot that particular bit was the perfect size to ream the holes easily. Maybe if I had used a lubricant it might have helped keep it cooler.
I think the next time I ever do it I'll go ahead and either buy a violin reamer or take it to a luthier.
And, for what it's worth, my '95 LP Studio came with Kluson tuners with the plastic knobs which have been holding up well....but I do have a set of Grover Roto's that I'm gonna slap into the guitar one of these days. I was told that the Grovers will fit the stock holes, but can't be totally sure.

....Bob

p.s. To MikeS: how do you like that JB/Jazz combo in your Studio? I'm using the same in mine and love 'em. I also use a Marshall JCM2000 DSL50 amp and think it sounds great.
Cheers!

The Klusons work just fine and the 10 y/o Klusons on my 95 LP std don't slip at all. If you just like the look better, then go for the Grovers. Seems to me I saw Grovers that do not require headstock reaming though some do.

It you knock over a LP you won't care about tuner damage, you'll be too freaked out about getting the headstock glued back on to notice.

For pure speed of string changing, I'd go with Sperzel locking tuners if you're going to switch them.

I love sperzels!!! As a matter of fact I broke the corner off the headstock of my strat drilling it to put sperzels on. Id prefer them, but know Id have to drill for those. Im hoping to avoid drilling.
I dont know when they changed the keys, but last few Ive played in stores had Grovers. This is a 2004 model and has Klusons. My 2002 Explorer has grovers.. FWIW

Thanks Robert!! Visually, Im not a fan of the Klusons, but I restrung her tonight and they have a much tighter gear ratio and feel than I expected.. I was worried buying this thing without playing it.. Last few Pauls (studios) Ive played in stores really failed to impress me.. Lackluster build and tone.
This one is special.. I lowered the action some, changed strings, Intonated it , lemon oiled the board, removed the pickguard and polished top to bottom. She has a bold unplugged tone and sounds so awesome plugged in. Never played a guitar with as much sustain way up on the high frets. It still has higher action than Ive ever left a guitar and yet its easy to play. I was playing tonight and Im not a real accomplished player, but I was playing way over my head tonight. Inspired. Its a beautiful thing!!

You'll kill the value of your guitar greatly, if you're forced to drill any new holes. Klusons allow the headstock to resonate better than bigger metal tuners, which is one reason Les Pauls still come with them. SO many players change tuners, due to tuning hassles, when it's totally unessessary. It's all about the setup with Pauls. Since they have a shorter neck length, intonation that isn't 100% perfect will result in tuning problems. If the truss rod is perfect, the action is perfect, and the intonation is so good that every note on the fretboard reads dead center on a digital tuner, you'll see that there's no reason to change the stock tuners. 80% of aftermarket tuner purchases are by players who don't have their guitars intonated.


Originally Posted by nahfutenhow old is it?

my '90 LP studio came with grover rotomatics. I switched to the locking rotomatics with no modification. if you say there are plastic knobs, this probably wont be the case for you, because I assume yours is a bit newer than mine

I did the same, albeit mine is an '00 Studio and it still came with Grovers?...

Ta-Da!: from : localhost/left of the page - no modification to my SG whatsoever. The screw hole at the bottom of the tuner lines right up with the existing bottom hole of the Gibson Deluxe kluson type. There's an empty hole above the tuner, but who cares?
most of the 90's LP's came with modern size Klusion style tuners .. 10mm

the easiest way to tell if you've got these is to look at how the tuner is held in place .. look at the shaft just below where the string goes through .. it will be held in w/ either a nut (modern) or a bushing (vintage 11/32).

if you've got modern size.. grovers or sperzels .. etc.. will all drop in no problem. and the only mod to worry about is the small mounting screw .. not really a big deal IMO.

if they're vintage .. which I doubt ... there are some great klusion style .. vintage sized .. locking tuners from gotoh ... they are killer ... and you'll find em on lots of the boo-teek strats .. grosh tyler etc..

I would like to point out that todays LP std's have returned to vintage sized klusions .. I'm not sure about the studio's though.