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Today I hit a couple of shops lookin @ Les Pauls, and Les Paul copies. I sent my LP Deluxe back..Loved the way it played and the sound was phenomenal, but the QC issues bugged me for a $1500 guitar. So I set out looking for LP quot;tonequot; on a budget.

I ended up trying out a few different Epihones, a Michael Kelly Patriot, a Dillion Goldtop, and a/b'ed them against 2 diff Gibby LP classics. Some were played through a Marshall DSL combo, a couple through a MESA F-50 combo (since that is what I own)

Observations:

The Dillion was OK. Build and fit amp; finish was nice. Jes didn't have much in the way of tone. Thin and muddy sounding amplified, not a good acoustic tone either. It did have good sustain, surprisingly. No comparison in sound to the real LP classic.

The first Epi I tried was LP Standard. It was much like the Dillion. Fit amp; finish was OK, nothing spectacular, but the acoustic and amplified tones were marginal at best. Sustain was so-so..again, no comparison to the LP classic.

The second EPI was also a Standard. Build quality was horrid..the nut, everything was loose, the pots were scratchy, pups were dark and muddy. Frets were sharp and uneven. pitiful.

The Michael Kelly Patriot Q had a very nice fit and finish for the most part. Better than the epis I'd tried previously, tho not quite as good as the Gibson. Considering the price (550) though it was pretty impressive. Unfortunately it had absolutely NO sustain. Like ......none. The pups were very muddy. PUP switch cut out intermittently. If it sounded as good as it looked I woulda bought it. It played very well.

I was about to give up and jes plunk down the dough for a Gibby, when I saw one Epi that caught my eye. a Transparent Amber Standard Plus. Pretty veener..more yellow and vanilla looking than amber. I eyed it over...nut looked pretty good..has grover tuners (?, don't think the other epis did), frets were prett decent..no sharp edges. A couple of cosmetic issues at the headstock and neck joint but considering the price..acceptable. Acoustically it sounded quot;OKquot;. It was a good bit lighter than the MK Patriot.

Plugged into the MESA F50. Hit an open G chord and it immediately got my attention. PLayed some power chords and dialed the amp in. Started noodling around the upper frets to check sustain. It was there in spades. Hmmmm. Ended up playing that guitar for an HOUR...din want to put it down. Tone/Sustain was as good as the Classic, but not quite as sweet or warm as my Deluxe. But it was pretty darn close. I actually couldn't believe it. The stock pups are actually pretty decent..a bit bright perhaps..lacking a little clarity, but alot better than the duncan design I had in the Jackson, and most IBZ pups. It was def classic LP sound. Fat with lots of low mids and bite. No noise/feedback issues. I've had a bunch of quot;realquot; LP's over the years (standards, customs, and one custom shop model) and although the fit and finish was much better on them, I can't say too many had better natural tone than this Epi.

She's in my bedroom as I type. I jes got done givin it a 2 hour workout at home through the Valvetronix (and sounds really good through it too, tho as I said, a little too bright). This is what I was lookin for...a less expensive clone that has a decent natural sound/ piece of wood, that I can throw some Duncans in and upgrade the other electronics if need be. With Grovers I'm not sure if I need to upgrade the tuners..will have to see over time.

Time to order up some nickel cover 59's or Seth's.

So as others have stated here, there ARE some good Epiphone Les Pauls out there. If you are on a budget, search 'em out. Play a bunch of 'em. As my dad used to say quot;if ya throw enuff $hit on the wall boy, eventually some of it's gonna stickquot;


Originally Posted by JeffB

As my dad used to say quot;if ya throw enuff $hit on the wall boy, eventually some of it's gonna stickquot; hahaha that's sooo true when it comes to any guitars high $ or not...there are great ones and there are junk! so throw lots of $hit...i mean play alot of them

glad you found the right LP for you! it sounds like it looks sweet too, i love amber LPs!!! now get some pics!!

-Mike

Thats cool as hell...you have to do that with quot;budgetquot; guitars...the thing is the sub par ones are usally pretty bad, but the good ones are fantastic! I did the same thing when looking for a Strat...I played over a dozen JV's while comparing to a CS 57 reissue...most of them were good one or two of them were not so good, 2 were amazing...but one of them was RED...I HATE RED GUITARS, so I got the black one!

There are some decent epi LP's out there. I have one, its a goldtop. I am gassing for an Edwards though.

that's excatly what I did
I went to the local shop, played all different guitars (I wasn't looking for a LP in particular) for several hours and only one felt really amazing: my Epiphone LP Classic . Even more than a month later I am still surprised how nice she feels and how good she sings...
OK, two others also felt amazing - a Gibson '72 LP and a PRS - but they costed more than 5x as much

New pups will definitely help you remove some mud from the sound and give you a better quot;PAF-style soundquot;.

Have fun with you LP!

Yeah, that's the same sort of thing that I did with my Dot . . . just kept playing through the guitars in the store untill I found one that felt and sounded right. Congrats on getting a sweet axe . . . !

Bottom line. New Les Pauls suck. Ya gotta go back to the originators the guys from kalimazoo. Heritage guitars kick some serious ass.

The only budget type Les Paul copies that I have experience with is the Agiles. They were consistently pretty damn good for the $$$

JEFF!!

By pure circumstance, is it a new model from China plant ?


Originally Posted by JeffBTransparent Amber Standard Plus. Pretty veener..more yellow and vanilla looking than amber. I eyed it over...nut looked pretty good..has grover tuners (?, don't think the other epis did), frets were prett decent..no sharp edges.Thought mine was the only one.
I've got a 59 and a Custom in it now , both Double Cream.
I know its only an Epi but, I really do need to get a picture up. It's unreal.


Originally Posted by madaxemanBottom line. New Les Pauls suck. Ya gotta go back to the originators the guys from kalimazoo. Heritage guitars kick some serious ass.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that My Deluxe tho having a few QC control issues def had better tone and playability than my Heritage 150 did. Prolly jes a better piece of wood.

BUt no doubt new Gibbys are pretty inconsistent.


Originally Posted by ThamesJEFF!!

By pure circumstance, is it a new model from China plant ?

It is/was made in China. The hang tag had a date of July 2004.

Does that make a difference?

Thanx everyone for the comments. I finally got a digital camera so soon I'll try and get a pic up...
pic up? how appropro

I played it quite a bit more last night. Jes needs a few tweaks in the setup and I will switch pups soon, but the basic tone is all Les Paul. Fat, sings, and excellent sustain...through the F-50 at the store it was great cos the sustained notes would take off into singing controlled feedback even at low volumes..can't wait to get my F50 back (shes at the shop now gettin fixed).

It's a hodgepodge of wood. The body is Def 2 pieces and possibly 3. The headstock is 2 pieces as well. It is a mahog body and neck though. Suspect the top is alder as they say, but I can't tell with the binding and veneer. The wood has some cosmetic issues too...some dark spots. The overall color is pretty though..kinda like the back of a goldtop..yellowish amber.

Regardless, I really am not worried. The sound is what I was concerned about. For 6 bills I don't care if has 1 piece of wood or 10. I don't expect it to be gorgeous or flawless (however the Veneer IS gorgeous...very subtle tiger stripes). For 6 bills I jes want it to play well, and sound good.

Hardest thing now will be decidin on pups...do I go with my fave Gibson/Duncan combo of a Custom Bridge and 59 neck?

Or a pair of 59's?

Or Seth's?

I've never tried Seths but I listened to the clips last night on a really good set of speakers and whoah boy do they sound good.... Only thing is the lack of potting...I hate extraneous noise/squeal.

Customs come in nickel covers?

oh decisions...

Time to update your signature, buddy!


Originally Posted by JeffBOr Seth's?

I've never tried Seths but I listened to the clips last night on a really good set of speakers and whoah boy do they sound good.... Only thing is the lack of potting...I hate extraneous noise/squeal.

Seths are GREAT in a Les Paul. People worry too much about the lack of potting. Unless you're going to play high gain at insane volumes it really isn't an issue. They are wonderful expressive ROCKIN' pickups.

People bash epiphone a lot more than they should I think. In the end, Epiphones and Gibsons aren't really made of stuff that is that different. In the end, it's similar wood, similar metal, and strings. You get good ones and bad ones from both. You need to know your stuff to find the good ones.


Originally Posted by JeffBIt is/was made in China. The hang tag had a date of July 2004.

Does that make a difference?

Jeff!! Ive been reporting incredible sightings of the newest chinese made Epis.. they were absolutely fantastic for the price. They really went a step over the korean ones. Ive played LPs, SG's and a gorgeous 335 DOT. Honestly, I never been satisfied with Epis, but these new ones are really something!

Congrats!!

I just picked up a Michael Kelly Patriot Q. The build on it is very impressive. I played all the dealer had and found one that was heavy and solid and this one sustains like a banshee.. Im quite impressed with it. Grover keys, tone pros bridge. (left over 2004) They discontinued the tonepros for 05. The pickups are ok for stock, but not pristine and alittle prone to feedback at high gain and volume.. But, I had already planned a set of Duncans for it..I too have been looking for Gibby LP or similar. I played some epis and a studio back to back and the epi build was nearly on par with the Gibby studio, but the studio had a much bolder sound. But honestly, I think it is just better stock pickups. Yeah, there is something about having that Gibson name on the stock, but not for the price difference.. This Michael Kelly has satisfied my need and I picked it up for $279. That leaves me change for a pup swap and Im all set! Bro, Im not sure where you are shopping, but you can get a Patriot for under $500 in my hood..


Originally Posted by BloodRoseI just picked up a Michael Kelly Patriot Q. The build on it is very impressive. I played all the dealer had and found one that was heavy and solid and this one sustains like a banshee.. Im quite impressed with it. Grover keys, tone pros bridge. (left over 2004) They discontinued the tonepros for 05. The pickups are ok for stock, but not pristine and alittle prone to feedback at high gain and volume.. But, I had already planned a set of Duncans for it..I too have been looking for Gibby LP or similar. I played some epis and a studio back to back and the epi build was nearly on par with the Gibby studio, but the studio had a much bolder sound. But honestly, I think it is just better stock pickups. Yeah, there is something about having that Gibson name on the stock, but not for the price difference.. This Michael Kelly has satisfied my need and I picked it up for $279. That leaves me change for a pup swap and Im all set! Bro, Im not sure where you are shopping, but you can get a Patriot for under $500 in my hood..

Wow tonepros and grovers for $279. :afro:
Yeah ! Blew my mind.. They did switch to standard bridge for 2005 so they wouldnt have to raise the price of the guitars more. But the guitars are still outsanding. The wiring is clean and even zip tied together. Worth getting and putting a tonepros on. Im really impressed with it. Im not just saying that with new owner pride, it is really a nice guitar and when you figure in price, its stellar.