software

After my recent Fed Ex nightmare, I've been thinking. Would the average musician that wants to buy a reasonably priced handwired tube amp be willing to shell out another $80-100 for it to arrive in an ATA shipping case?

from : localhost/cgi.ebay.com/New-ATA-Case-fit...QQcmdZViewItem

I'm tempted to order one of these and see if it's worth a damn.

What do you think?

Or what if a builder shipped your amp to you in such a case and then enclosed a return shipping label, prepaid and you sent back the case to the builder?

(damn nice run-on sentance)

(damn is the word of the night it appears)

(damn, said it again)

I think both of those scenarios would probably work. If I was gonna buy one of those beautiful Edena 45's I would want a nice case like that anyway.

Damn ROck On!

I'd say it's worthwhile. Did one of your amps get destroyed in transit?

How about carpet padding? The 3/4quot; stuff? I got a new Marshall Combo about 10 years ago. It came wrapped in 3/4 carpet padding new.


Originally Posted by XeromusI'd say it's worthwhile. Did one of your amps get destroyed in transit?

Teh amp took minor damage, but the 3 weeks in limbo left me rather frustrated. The extra expense of overnighting it back out killed any profit that was there.

I'm seriously thinking about making this a standard equipment item. If someone absolutely just refuses to want it, then I let them deal with Fed Ex if something goes awry? Nah, too much of a hard ass that way. By the time you go out and buy a couple of boxes and packing material, you just spent 25 bucks.

At the production point both you and I work at, a quot;flight casequot; is the only way to go for shipping, mine are included in the price, and it really does speak volumes about your quality control.....Unpacking a $4 grand amp from a cardboard box isn't quite as comforting as a nicely padded quot;flight case'..

best wishes bro!

Jeff Seal

Id love it if it was STD. Id be quite willing to pay more.

I would, I'd want to keep the case too

I used to deal with the Blues Pearl Amp Co. a lot. Robert Hudson, the owner, found his solution to be oversized boxes, and a liquid foam spraying unit.
He'd wrap the amps in a hefty bag with strapping tape. Then he'd spray the foam into a bag, place it in the box, push the amp into it, so it'd be form-fitting, then put another bag full of liquid foam on top of it. When he'd seal the box, the foam would expand and harden, creating a foamy shell all around the amp.

When you'd open the box, you'd pull off the top bag, that's formed around the amp, and then pull the amp out. Look into a liquid foam sprayer.

Roadcases wuld be better if the customer wanted to keep one.

Everyone loves a roadcase.


Originally Posted by GearjoneserWhen you'd open the box, you'd pull off the top bag, that's formed around the amp, and then pull the amp out. Look into a liquid foam sprayer.

Boogie does the same thing, the liquid foam bit and it's hella' secure. I'm convinced that anything packed in liquid foam can survive a drop off a loading dock but only because I've seen it happen!

As for the ATA case, I'd say it depends. If someone's going to do some heavy traveling with it then it's worth the money. OTOH, if the amp is a studio/home piece that's never going farther then the local bar then a case is a waste of money amp; a waste of space. Eons ago when I bought a used VHT 1x12 Pitbull it came with a Calzone case and I was trying to get the store to keep the case and save me $50 on the deal. They wouldn't hear of it and I never transported the amp in the case because of the added weight and size...it just wouldn't fit into the car easily. I traded the amp for an AC30 but I still have the case amp; use it as a table!

The other thing is that not all quot;ATAquot; cases are created equally. A real deal ATA case has been tested and approved by the Airline Transit Assoc. and can withstand lots of constant abuse. There's some kinda policy in place that if the gear gets busted while in transit and it's in an approved case, properly insured amp; packed etc. the airline and/or cargo company HAS to pay up, a search for ATA specs or ATA requirements should pull up the info. On the flip side, if the gear is in a lightweight quot;ATA stylequot; case which hasn't actually been approved then your SOL if you try to collect even if you paid for extra insurance. They'll nail you on the quot;improperly packedquot; routine.

Been there, done that.

Suckage.

Generally a really expensive amp; heavy case is that way for a reason. That $50 case in the link looks like it wouldn't hold up too well. It's probably made of 1/4quot; luan ply with lightweight aluminum rails amp; cheesy rivits that'll start to pull out after a while, latches that work loose after a few hundered turns etc.The lightweight case just isn't going to protect the gear amp; hold up like a quot;realquot; flight case. The materials alone for a true ATA case cost well in excess of $50!

Check out these cases; from : localhost/Look at the visual difference between the quot;ATAquot; case and the others. What would you rather have the gear in? Granted, the light duty case will protect it, but it won't be enough to protect it from the monkeys that work for the freight companies. If it's a real ATA case, you can slap a shipping label on and send the rig off on it's merry way and 99.2% of the time it'll arrive intact even if it goes halfway around the world!! On the lightweight cases the exposed latches amp; handles will get sheered off in transit! And just for comparison check out the pricing with Hybrid, they're pretty competitive for real cases...better then Calzone amp; Anvil which are a bit overpriced IMO. Future Case in MA is pretty good too, Road Ready...there's a bunch of 'em out there.

About a year ago when I closed down my studio and went into production I had to score rack cases to carry my gear around in. I really balked at the idea of spending $200-ish per 6-space rack but really...it's transporting $2000-3000 compressors, EQ's and the like so one rack might have $7500 of gear in it. When I looked at the $175 case next to the $75 look-alike there was just NO comparison...like comparing a Squire Strat or a MIM to a Custom Shop piece. Yah, they were expensive but it's piece of mind amp; protection. IMHO, it's totally worth every penny. You're building beautiful amps...why stick them in the equivilent of a chipboard case???

Peace,


Originally Posted by J MooseBoogie does the same thing, the liquid foam bit and it's hella' secure. I'm convinced that anything packed in liquid foam can survive a drop off a loading dock but only because I've seen it happen!

The Matchless Clubman I had was the same....forms a nice tight sarcophagus!!! Originally Posted by J MooseAs for the ATA case, I'd say it depends. If someone's going to do some heavy traveling with it then it's worth the money. OTOH, if the amp is a studio/home piece that's never going farther then the local bar then a case is a waste of money amp; a waste of space.

Pretty much my feelings....or in my case, I'm having a custom head cab built amp; would require different dimensions. If you did go with the case, you'd have to settle on one cab builder amp; one set of dimensions....which hasn't hurt Marshall

But like we said in the e-mail, if you're gonna be shipping for test drives, I would ABSOLUTELY get one.


Originally Posted by GearjoneserI used to deal with the Blues Pearl Amp Co. a lot. Robert Hudson, the owner, found his solution to be oversized boxes, and a liquid foam spraying unit.
He'd wrap the amps in a hefty bag with strapping tape. Then he'd spray the foam into a bag, place it in the box, push the amp into it, so it'd be form-fitting, then put another bag full of liquid foam on top of it. When he'd seal the box, the foam would expand and harden, creating a foamy shell all around the amp.

When you'd open the box, you'd pull off the top bag, that's formed around the amp, and then pull the amp out. Look into a liquid foam sprayer.I used the same exact method for the one that just got trashed. The foam protected the enclosure really well. But, the shearing forces of what must have been a 6 foot or greater drop, did all the damage. Evan an ATA flight case would not have prevented the shearing forces.

I wonder where I can get an economical quantity of that spray foam... anyone know?

HHHHHMMMMMMMM.....I'm guessing maybe check with some other amp manufacturers, but I'm also guessing it ain't cheap unless you buy it in bulk amp; then you'd need a compressor amp; gun or whatever they use to shoot it.

I'd pay the few extra bucks for a good case with no problem. I don't know what you are charging for the amp but I'm guessing that the added cost for a good case isn't more than 10%.
Just as an aside....I HATE it when gear manufacturers make what is for the most part a decent product and then drop the ball by cutting some corner so they can make 50 cents or a dollar more per unit. I've got an EV stage wedge that cost about 450 bucks. It works well and has for many years. However the day I bought it I told the guy in the music store that the handle was not up to snuff. Considering how often I'd be moving it I knew it wouldn't last for more than a year or so. I told him this. He picks up the wedge and gives me the quot;seems fine to mequot; speech while rolling his eyes. I said fine, I'll take it, but when the handle breaks you're replacing it at no cost to me. He agreed. I could see his gears turning as he thought I has no idea what I was talking about. About a year to the day I come back in with a broken handle. He wants to charge me for a new one. I reminded him of our handshake agreement. Since then he's replaced that handle two more times. The moral of our story....I'd have gladly paid another 10 bucks for the wedge with a decent handle.

At low production volumes, I think the ATA case is probably more economical than investing in the foam-spray setup. At higher volumes, the opposite will become true.

Try to standardize your amps' outer dimensions - down to one combo and one head, if possible. Then, haggle with some case builders to see if you can get the price down a bit lower for repeat business, maybe even volume orders (if you think you'll use them up in a reasonable amount of time).

The return shipping option might be attractive to a few buyers who don't ever plan to take the amp out of the house, but really -- how much does it cost to return-ship an $80 case? It's hardly even worth the hassle, and once a case has been through the wringer, it's only good for return-shipping sales from then on. People keeping the case are going to want a fresh one.


Originally Posted by Rich_SThe return shipping option might be attractive to a few buyers who don't ever plan to take the amp out of the house, but really -- how much does it cost to return-ship an $80 case? It's hardly even worth the hassle, and once a case has been through the wringer, it's only good for return-shipping sales from then on. People keeping the case are going to want a fresh one.

Here's the catch...

You can't ship that $50 case as-is because it's not an ATA case. Most freight companies are going to look at something like that and there's a 50/50 shot on it being refused for improper packing. Kinda like taking a box that's been used 400 million times and is totally beat up amp; duct taped box over to UPS and they won't accept it and send you away to rebox.

Personally I wouldn't care if a quot;newquot; case has been used once or twice before. I don't mind a little road-rash as long as it's not totally beat. But then again I'm one of those guys who buys used cases and asks for B-stock! I aquire stuff to get used, not to sit there amp; look pretty so a couple of scuffs and a shipping label or two doesn't bother me because it's gonna WAY worse after I've owned it for a year!

FWIW, my local UPS has a spray foam packing system or at least they used to. Maybe there's a small manufacturer or packing specialist place near you that you could subcontract the work to.


Originally Posted by GrandorEveryone loves a roadcase.

I sure love mine! I've got three now that have sat downstairs in storage and have been there since I got them. They look great stacked up in the corner collecting dust with empty guitar cases leaning against them.

About once a year the wife stumbles upon them and asks why i have them and haven't gotten rid of them and I'm always hard-pressed to come up with a decent answer why.

Scott, I would honestly say that the damage done by shipping is essentially the cost of doing business. Unless your amps are so dramatically underpriced versus your competittion that even with an extra $100 overhead it's still a deal then I'd consider letting the buyer make the decision as to whether it ships in a road case or not.

Personally...I don't need a fourth vehicle for dust.....