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Hello all!
Im trying to decide which amp is right for me that ill purchase in the near future used. Other than the 'new' cost factor the 1959 being 2000 and the 1987 being 1600, and the wattage. What are the differences in thes amps tone wise and breakup wise? Ive heard the 1959 is quot;woodierquot;? and i dont really understand what the 1987 is like tone wise. Also, what is the usual wattage both of these amps start to overdrive and break up at... and what should each go for 'roughly' used on ebay?

Thanks-
Alex

ive looked at schematics and i am almost 100% certain that they are identical in the preamp circuit. The woodier tone would probably be due to the fact that it has more headroom and you get more of those 'in between' tones that occur before lots of tube saturation. An 87x and a 59SLP at the same volume settings dB wise-you'd expect the 87 to have quite a bit more overdrive in the tubes, but 59 would probably sound warm but more defined and less distorted than the 87X giving it a 'woodier tone'. The extra headroom gives you the opportunity to find those woody tones in between.

So say if i was gonna use a Fuzz Face to get the Distortion/Overdrive tones, typically It would be better to have more headroom.... right?

The 50 and 100 differ by about 3db wide open.The 100 (1959) has more bottom, more of a roar with the gain. They sound bigger and more open.

The 1987x has earlier breakup, more grind and is typically more aggressive sounding. Jeff Beck is a great example of classic 50 watt tones. Wired is a great example of albums to here this on.

Both of the RI amps are based on metal panel marshalls and not plexi circuits, I believe 1973 is the year they are closest to. They are brighter, have more aggressive gain, ect. I think both benefit from some minor tweaking to original specs, warmer bias and decent tubes. At the minimum clip the cap off of the bright channel volume and it will really help to warm the amp up. If it were me, I would by used because with the new handwired Marshall line I think the current PC Marshalls are priced a bit too high. You can find em used and clean in the 700-900 range. Great deals at that price point.

If you hit my link you will hear my 1993 1987x ( I just traded it) on most of the songs on my site. I had it tweaked to mostly 68 specs and it sounded great. An attenuator is a must with these, they will peel paint at 5.


Originally Posted by kevlar3000The 1987x has earlier breakup, more grind and is typically more aggressive sounding. Jeff Beck is a great example of classic 50 watt tones. Wired is a great example of albums to here this on.

Yup. Also think Michael Schenker, Yngwie, Davey amp; Adrian.

Both of the RI amps are based on metal panel marshalls and not plexi circuits, I believe 1973 is the year they are closest to. They are brighter, have more aggressive gain, ect.

Yup 1973 is the year the 1987X is based on, I'm not sure about the 59 tho. Def more of the agressive 70's tone than the 60's Plexi. Personally I prefer this more agressive 70's tone to the plexi tone. Jump the channels and it smooths out some. Get's a bit more quot;plexi-ishquot;
An attenuator is a must with these, they will peel paint at 5.

Another quot;Yupquot; They are LOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUDDDDD.


Originally Posted by kevlar3000The 50 and 100 differ by about 3db wide open.The 100 (1959) has more bottom, more of a roar with the gain. They sound bigger and more open.

The 1987x has earlier breakup, more grind and is typically more aggressive sounding. Jeff Beck is a great example of classic 50 watt tones. Wired is a great example of albums to here this on.

Both of the RI amps are based on metal panel marshalls and not plexi circuits, I believe 1973 is the year they are closest to. They are brighter, have more aggressive gain, ect. I think both benefit from some minor tweaking to original specs, warmer bias and decent tubes. At the minimum clip the cap off of the bright channel volume and it will really help to warm the amp up. If it were me, I would by used because with the new handwired Marshall line I think the current PC Marshalls are priced a bit too high. You can find em used and clean in the 700-900 range. Great deals at that price point.

If you hit my link you will hear my 1993 1987x ( I just traded it) on most of the songs on my site. I had it tweaked to mostly 68 specs and it sounded great. An attenuator is a must with these, they will peel paint at 5.

Excellent review of a great Amp. The difference between a 50W and 100W is always confused that they are a lot louder, which they are not. IMO both of these Amps are almost unusable in many Gig situations. You have to play them very loud to get that quot;Marshallquot; sound that we have all come to Love It is truly one of the Best Amps you can use... if you play in very large concert halls. If you play in a local pub, get a Marshall that has a master volume.

I have borrowed my friends 1987 head a few times, with the right tubes for lower volumes and some really mean it playing it works great, but I used pedals with it...man it is some of the best sounds ever, like those new Twin-amps Fender are doing now, same raw fat sound....nothing modern channel-switching stuff really does do that feel and sound those simple and powerful amps makes.

Power Attenuator and crank er up to 10......

Alright, I think i might have just misunderstood their differences. So both can get you that very wide (obese i like to desciribe it) Hendrix sound. And tell me if i understand correctly, they both are fvcking loud!?
You see, i had heard that the 1959 was wide and woody/hendrixy, and the 1987x was thinner and more of a shredder tone... and this isnt the case, right?


Originally Posted by ArmotronAlright, I think i might have just misunderstood their differences. So both can get you that very wide (obese i like to desciribe it) Hendrix sound. And tell me if i understand correctly, they both are fvcking loud!?
You see, i had heard that the 1959 was wide and woody/hendrixy, and the 1987x was thinner and more of a shredder tone... and this isnt the case, right?The 87 is not thinner as in wimpy, but it does not have as much bottom as a 59. You get a earlier breakup but I would not call it a shredder tone unless you are fronting with a pedal of some sort. Both amps have wonderful clarity and are medium gain amps with beautiful open sustain.

The thing with Plexis is that there are differences between the circuits from 67 -69. A stock 69 Plexi will sound very different than a stock 67. The conversion from shared to split cathode, different value components.... Many changes. The beauty is messing with these and really making your amp sing. You can do a little or a lot, it is amazing the differences you can make.


Originally Posted by kevlar3000The 87 is not thinner as in wimpy, but it does not have as much bottom as a 59. You get a earlier breakup but I would not call it a shredder tone unless you are fronting with a pedal of some sort. Both amps have wonderful clarity and are medium gain amps with beautiful open sustain.

The thing with Plexis is that there are differences between the circuits from 67 -69. A stock 69 Plexi will sound very different than a stock 67. The conversion from shared to split cathode, different value components.... Many changes. The beauty is messing with these and really making your amp sing. You can do a little or a lot, it is amazing the differences you can make.

Thanks, i understand now! So, say i got an 87, by a specific tube change and/or upgrading/changing some parts/componets, it would be possible to maybe add some low end to the amp and make it sound how I want it?


Originally Posted by ArmotronThanks, i understand now! So, say i got an 87, by a specific tube change and/or upgrading/changing some parts/componets, it would be possible to maybe add some low end to the amp and make it sound how I want it?

If you want that thicker low-end, then just plug into the top RIGHT input; that's what I do.
I like both of these amps because they are straight forward tone machines--I use my 59SLP with an ADA MP-1 and the tones are beyond sick.

Whichever amp you get, it's gonna be totally killer--just be sure to get a really good cab with speakers that can handle the power of these amps.

Rock.

59SLP's RULE. SLP's will purr like a kitten or growl like a lion. tons of power, headroom and tone. crank it way up and get aggresive EL-34 distortion heaven with great big bottom. make sure you get a 4X12 with Vintage 30's or G12H-30's for tone and power handling. oh yeah, most importantly ---gt; *** get an attenuator also if you want to keep your hearing lol ***.


Originally Posted by ArmotronThanks, i understand now! So, say i got an 87, by a specific tube change and/or upgrading/changing some parts/componets, it would be possible to maybe add some low end to the amp and make it sound how I want it?Exactly. There are many things you can do, but a cranked 50 will surely be full sounding. The tweak factor is one of the coolest things about these amps.

i diddnt know you could tweak PCB amps, these are th regular RI's were talking about right?


Originally Posted by kevlar3000Exactly. There are many things you can do, but a cranked 50 will surely be full sounding. The tweak factor is one of the coolest things about these amps.

Tweaking those amps is definitely the coolest part of it.


Originally Posted by guymanpersoni diddnt know you could tweak PCB amps, these are th regular RI's were talking about right?Yep, just a bit more work. Mine was a PCB and sounded fantastic.


Originally Posted by kevlar3000Yep, just a bit more work. Mine was a PCB and sounded fantastic.

Yep....My 73 Metal Panel 50 watter is pcb and it's tweaked for quot;Plexiquot; and a bit beyond....The O.E.I. output transformer was a great upgrade also...

Let's just say for the most part that both circuits are the same,especially in the preamp..Some of the 1987 circuits lacked a .68 cathode cap at V2...This is one of the things the earlier Plexi heads had and some later ones didn't,plus the transformer voltages changed all the time..This .68 cap adds more gain to the preamp...A cool mod is to have a switch that allows having that .68 in and out of V2's circuit,and then you add higher value caps for even more gain and more lows at V2...That's what my amp has...I'm a tweaker and my amp has alot of other cool quot;dependablequot; mods that I added....

John

thought 1987x's were 1300 new?!


Originally Posted by guymanpersonthought 1987x's were 1300 new?!
Blem they are. 1600 brand new.
Anyway, ill probabally be looking to get myself a 1987xl, and go about personalizing it to my needs i guess. Maybe first change to JJ E34Ls in the power for more head room and a deeper low end. Ill have to see....

Thanks everyone!