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I have been ruined. I amp looking for a Fender point-to-point amp. I probably could have bought a Line 6 Spider and been completely happy. But, this forum has ruined me. Plus, there are vintage Princeton's out there that I can afford and I will likely be able to re-sell it in a year or so and not lose anything while I own it.

For what I can afford to spend, I am looking for a Fender Princeton non-reverb. I understand they make great living room amps and miked are very gig-able. I would like to have the Princeton Reverb but they are a little higher. I just want the Bell Bottom Blues, Layla tones sweet cleans to lightly gritty blues. I know those were with Fender Champs. Hopefully, the Princeton will be close to that tone. I would love to have a brown era Princeton. Maybe I'll stumble over a truly great deal. We shall see what I end up with.

Also, I've been hearing that the vintage Gibsons are the last good vintage finds, Falcons, Skylarks, Titans...

Do you have any Princeton advice to offer? Or other similar vintage PTP offerings...What if a guy could amass a collection of 10 - 20 Princtons and gig with a wall of Princeton amps behind him?

how much are you looking to spend?

fivehundredclams plus or minus 100 depending on the find...and for those of you following my amp quest, I still have the Bassman, Deluxe Reverb, and others on my list. For various reasons, the Princeton made it to the top. I wanted to put a Champ, 6 watts, in the #1 slot but I would rather have a higher output 12-15 Princeton.


Originally Posted by Guitar ToadFor what I can afford to spend, I am looking for a Fender Princeton non-reverb. I understand they make great living room amps and miked are very gig-able. I would like to have the Princeton Reverb but they are a little higher. I just want the Bell Bottom Blues, Layla tones sweet cleans to lightly gritty blues. I know those were with Fender Champs. Hopefully, the Princeton will be close to that tone. I would love to have a brown era Princeton. Maybe I'll stumble over a truly great deal. We shall see what I end up with.

Duane Allman used a Princeton on the the Layla album. I have a 79' Princeton Reverb. It's VERY GIGABLE ! They need a Lil' help in the Phase Inverter to get max volume.There are some simple mods any good Amp tech can do. It can also use a better speaker (If you Intend to gig with it?) But stock it's a great Blues/Recording amp.

i want it to be gig-able, but it'll be a while before i'll able to gig. so, right right now it's not a big requirement. I've heard that the non-reverb Princetons are very clean and the Princeton Reverbs are better for dirty tone. Has that been your experience with them? I'm willing to use a pedal for extra drive if necessary.


Originally Posted by Guitar Toadi want it to be gig-able, but it'll be a while before i'll able to gig. so, right right now it's not a big requirement. I've heard that the non-reverb Princetons are very clean and the Princeton Reverbs are better for dirty tone. Has that been your experience with them?

I am willing to use a pedal for extra drive if necessary.

I never played the NonVerb model. The verb model has 2 more pre tubes. That I image could create a extra gain stage? Not that much more gain. It just would start beaking up sooner. But i have heard that the NV Prince can
be clean on 10 ? My amp starts to breakup around 6 or 7 w/t a HB 7 or 8
with a SC. Depending on your picking attack.

...I know it's more $$$, but spend the extra and gete a Princeton Reverb...It's worth it!


Originally Posted by the guy who invented fire...I know it's more $$$, but spend the extra and gete a Princeton Reverb...It's worth it!

I'll see what I can do. But, for what the Princeton Reverbs go for, I could likely get a SFDR. What's a guy to do in that case? the PR's appear to be highly desired and go for gt;$1100, I've seen SFDR's for lt;$1000.

What's the best bang for the buck in those situations? If you have a PR or a SFDR sitting side by side for the same money, what do you do?............................................... ...
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After a little search, oops! I just saw a PR for $650. Maybe I can go for a late 70's PR, but not the 60's or early 70's that I would really want

Let's say you had a beat up '75 SF Princeton Reverb. Let's say cosmetically it's terrrible, but tone wise it was fine. Could you give it the frankenstein treatment and put a 12quot; speaker or mod it to 2x10quot; and put a little bigger output transformer in it and turn the 14 watts into 20 watts? Would it be worthwhile to do this? Advise for against this? or would you find other PR pieces to make it like the original vintage package.


Originally Posted by Guitar ToadLet's say you had a beat up '75 SF Princeton Reverb. Let's say cosmetically it's terrrible, but tone wise it was fine. Could you give it the frankenstein treatment and put a 12quot; speaker or mod it to 2x10quot; and put a little bigger output transformer in it and turn the 14 watts into 20 watts? Would it be worthwhile to do this? Advise for against this? or would you find other PR pieces to make it like the original vintage package.

My Personal feeling are such... You want a 1x12 combo...Get a deluxe. You
want a 2x10 combo get a Vibrolux. You want a Princeton that Screams?
Are you handy w/t a soldering Iron? O.K. with the inner workings of a tube amp (i.e.discharging the filter cap) ?? There are 2 simple mods that can be easly reversed. The Stokes mod moves the B voltage from the filter cap down stream a lil' before it hits the Phase Inverter giving a lil' more headroom
in the PI. The Paul C. mod is just running a jumper and changing a few resistors to balance the PI . I would also change the PI caps with a pair of Matched orange Drops. Now you have a efficient Phase Inverter. (Remember this amp was designed to be a student model) Add a Weber Cali series 10quot; speaker and PRESTO ! You have one loud Lil' combo. IMHO it's much better that caving it up for bigger speakers and drilling holes for larger trannie's.
BTW, I almost forgot .It's a good idea to add a pair of resistor across the
tubes. I have all the Info you need just PM me (And AVOID THE TORRES MODS)

I have been wanting a Princton myself for ages..... Black face or Silver face i don't care.... I want the one with Reverb as it has a bit more gain and the Fender sound i like has a lot to do with the great reverb....

WhoFan


Originally Posted by kmcguitarsMy Personal feeling are such... You want a 1x12 combo...Get a deluxe. You
want a 2x10 combo get a Vibrolux. You want a Princeton that Screams?
Are you handy w/t a soldering Iron? O.K. with the inner workings of a tube amp (i.e.discharging the filter cap) ?? There are 2 simple mods that can be easly reversed. The Stokes mod moves the B voltage from the filter cap down stream a lil' before it hits the Phase Inverter giving a lil' more headroom
in the PI. The Paul C. mod is just running a jumper and changing a few resistors to balance the PI . I would also change the PI caps with a pair of Matched orange Drops. Now you have a efficient Phase Inverter. (Remember this amp was designed to be a student model) Add a Weber Cali series 10quot; speaker and PRESTO ! You have one loud Lil' combo. IMHO it's much better that caving it up for bigger speakers and drilling holes for larger trannie's.
BTW, I almost forgot .It's a good idea to add a pair of resistor across the
tubes. I have all the Info you need just PM me (And AVOID THE TORRES MODS)

Wow, that's some great info. I'll pm you after I get one. Very cool.
Thanks.Todd


Originally Posted by Guitar ToadWow, that's some great info. I'll pm you after I get one. Very cool.
Thanks.Todd

Here's a cool link. from : localhost/have a layout of the Paul C. mod if you can't make heads or tails from the Schematic.

I now have a drip-edge SF Champ, a SF Princeton (nonverb), a transitional BF/blonde Tremolux, a wide panel tweed Deluxe, and a SF Musicmaster Bass (MMB) amp. The Tremo and tweed Deluxe are wonderful, but pricey amps, so I'll concetrate on the others. Note that all 3 of the SF amps I mention here will need a new speaker to bring out their best.

For the tone you described, I would recommend the Champ or the MMB. The Princeton is great for a Fender clean tone, but it will only break up with HB's, not SC's. You'll need to hit it with a good boost pedal to have any chance of gigging with it. The Champ is just as loud with a good speaker, and will be clean at low vol and break up nicely as you crank it. The hidden gem is the MMB. You can still find these for around $200. They are a little strange, but with a good set of 6V6's (or 6AQ5's in early versions) and a single 12AX7, they are easy to feed. I put a 12quot; Eminence Cannabis Rex replacement speaker in mine last week, and that transformed this little beast into an incredible, street-ready imitation of my tweed Deluxe -- all for $400 with the speaker and new JJ 6V6's and a health check up. If you can afford a SF Deluxe, then you might like that a lot, depending on the tone you're after -- I personally would choose one over a Princeton Reverb. The tweed-era Gibsons are also very cool -- the blonde Skylark from '59-'61 or so is just like a tweed Champ, and there are lots of other offbeat but toneful Gibsons out there, like my tweed '59-'61 GA-18T Explorer.

Happy hunting!


Originally Posted by KelseyI now have a drip-edge SF Champ, a SF Princeton (nonverb), a transitional BF/blonde Tremolux, a wide panel tweed Deluxe, and a SF Musicmaster Bass (MMB) amp. The Tremo and tweed Deluxe are wonderful, but pricey amps, so I'll concetrate on the others. Note that all 3 of the SF amps I mention here will need a new speaker to bring out their best.

For the tone you described, I would recommend the Champ or the MMB. The Princeton is great for a Fender clean tone, but it will only break up with HB's, not SC's. You'll need to hit it with a good boost pedal to have any chance of gigging with it. The Champ is just as loud with a good speaker, and will be clean at low vol and break up nicely as you crank it. The hidden gem is the MMB. You can still find these for around $200. They are a little strange, but with a good set of 6V6's (or 6AQ5's in early versions) and a single 12AX7, they are easy to feed. I put a 12quot; Eminence Cannabis Rex replacement speaker in mine last week, and that transformed this little beast into an incredible, street-ready imitation of my tweed Deluxe -- all for $400 with the speaker and new JJ 6V6's and a health check up. If you can afford a SF Deluxe, then you might like that a lot, depending on the tone you're after -- I personally would choose one over a Princeton Reverb. The tweed-era Gibsons are also very cool -- the blonde Skylark from '59-'61 or so is just like a tweed Champ, and there are lots of other offbeat but toneful Gibsons out there, like my tweed '59-'61 GA-18T Explorer.

Happy hunting!Thanks for the great info. I wondered if perhaps i was making too much of the difference between the Champ and the Princeton. The Champ can really be as loud as the Princeton? That is certainly something to think about. and you sure make the SF MMB sound very appealing.

It looks like I really have many viable and truly toneful options. This is going to be a fun search.


Originally Posted by kmcguitarsMy Personal feeling are such... You want a 1x12 combo...Get a deluxe. You
want a 2x10 combo get a Vibrolux. You want a Princeton that Screams?
Are you handy w/t a soldering Iron? O.K. with the inner workings of a tube amp (i.e.discharging the filter cap) ?? There are 2 simple mods that can be easly reversed. The Stokes mod moves the B voltage from the filter cap down stream a lil' before it hits the Phase Inverter giving a lil' more headroom
in the PI. The Paul C. mod is just running a jumper and changing a few resistors to balance the PI . I would also change the PI caps with a pair of Matched orange Drops. Now you have a efficient Phase Inverter. (Remember this amp was designed to be a student model) Add a Weber Cali series 10quot; speaker and PRESTO ! You have one loud Lil' combo. IMHO it's much better that caving it up for bigger speakers and drilling holes for larger trannie's.
BTW, I almost forgot .It's a good idea to add a pair of resistor across the
tubes. I have all the Info you need just PM me (And AVOID THE TORRES MODS)Do you do both of these mod's? They look simple enough. So, If i end up with Princeton Reverb, I'll plan on doing those mods.

The Vibrolux's look sweet, but appear to be fewer and more $.

keep in mind that one may not be louder than the other, but it is in headroom that the difference lies


Originally Posted by Guitar ToadDo you do both of these mod's? They look simple enough. So, If i end up with Princeton Reverb, I'll plan on doing those mods.

Yes ! I did the mods myself. The Stokes mod is very easy (BE SURE TO DISCHARGE THE FILTER CAP ! ) The Paul C. mod took a lil' more skill. you have to rearange and install a network of resistors. But I'd say most D.I.Y.ers can pull it off. Just be sure to put the right values in the right place.
If you want to hear my princeton in action Click on my soundclick link below.
The 1st song Mr.whoppee is my Princeton on around 6 or 7 w/t a Strat APS
neck.( I'm the intro and end solo) The next tune is a strat Lil' 59er. At the time the amp had a Kendricks Blackframe speaker. Now it has the Weber
and there is NO speaker breakup. (Just tubes )

I do most of my playing with a '56 tweed Princeton. It's a great amp, however, it doesn't like pedals. It has a great natural overdriven tone. The down side to vintage Gibson amps is that they're low gain amps. They were designed to be used with higher output P-90, and humbucker pickups. They don't overdrive as easily, and don't sound as good as a Fender when they do. Vintage Fender amps are high gain amps because they were designed to be used with the lower output Telecaster, and Stratocaster pickups.Sprinter