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I always hear from people that certain amps are way too bright or way too loud. When you ask them what they use it for, they will most likely tell you they play at home.

My bandmaster is one BRIGHT sounding amp, but that's what gets it its place in the mix when I jam along with a bassist, 2nd guitar, drums, and a saxophone. I find myself setting the treble to 6 or 7 with the bright switch on, with the bass at 3. When i play without the band, its painful, but with the band, it's perfect and it wails through pleasingly.

Just a brief rant about forum advice, and taking reviews with a grain of salt.
I was checking out HT reviews on the DRRI, and how the speaker was way too bright and sounded poor compared to a Celestion Greenback.
People could say things about the tone of certain amps or that this piece of gear NEEDS these mods to correct this and that, when they dont even play with a band and cannot attest to how well something sounds in a live mix to begin with. Most vintage amps were designed with the professional musician in mind who needs a piece of gear to sound good in live mixes, not in their bedrooms.


Originally Posted by Quencho092My bandmaster is one BRIGHT sounding amp, but that's what gets it its place in the mix when I jam along with a bassist, 2nd guitar, drums, and a saxophone. I find myself setting the treble to 6 or 7 with the bright switch on, with the bass at 3. When i play without the band, its painful, but with the band, it's perfect and it wails through pleasingly.

That's one of the reason's that some people complain about Mesa's not cutting.....they're not as bright as most Fender's, but you'll never get that kind of smoothness out of a bright amp either.

It all depends on the tone you're after.....and how many musicians are fighting for the same sonic space.


Originally Posted by screamingdaisyIt all depends on the tone you're after.....and how many musicians are fighting for the same sonic space.

How true....

IMHO it is easier to darken an amp than it is to brighten it, so when I'm looking at amps that is one thing I consider; what is the maximum brightness without sounding bad? However I'm not looking for some scooped sound, just a nice bit of cut.

Luke


Originally Posted by Quencho092Just a brief rant about forum advice, and taking reviews with a grain of salt.
People could say things about the tone of certain amps or that this piece of gear NEEDS these mods to correct this and that, when they dont even play with a band and cannot attest to how well something sounds in a live mix to begin with. Most vintage amps were designed with the professional musician in mind who needs a piece of gear to sound good in live mixes, not in their bedrooms.

Always remember your source.

Some people prefer things differently than you do.

Some people have to mess with stuff. They have to. I've never had to mod a pedal or amp. I just found what I was looking for.

The best thing you can ever do is to take advice into consideration, but try before you buy.


Originally Posted by screamingdaisyThat's one of the reason's that some people complain about Mesa's not cutting.....they're not as bright as most Fender's, but you'll never get that kind of smoothness out of a bright amp either.

It all depends on the tone you're after.....and how many musicians are fighting for the same sonic space.

Not just that, but generally speaking, the stereotypical Mesa sound is a really high gain scooped sound. Not that they have to sound like that, but they can sound good like that on their own. High gain on guitars gets lost in a mix. Whenever you record, use less gain than you think you need, because it does mush things up. If you think you need that much gain, record a second identical, cleaner track, and see how you like the results- or mix it in with the mushy one. Think of Zeppelin, you remember those riffs being so massive and heavy, but when you go back and listen those guitar tracks are really clean.

The same is also true in bass. The best solo bass sound is a bottom heavy, scooped mid sound. Unless you're really careful, a scooped mid sound will not cut through in a mix.

I think a lot of folks also make comments like that based on setting the controls the way they're used to setting 'em instead of letting their ears guide them to what sounds good on that amp.

My amps are stupid!

I think alot of problems exist in the fact that some amps are very bright sounding until you get them cranked, which is much louder than they will ever need them to be.

My Deluxe Reverb Reissue was that way when I got it. I spent two months contemplating cutting caps, different tubes, speakers. Then I heard a clip of this guy on the Les Paul forum running a Les Paul directly into a Deluxe Reverb and getting a Duane Allman tone DEAD on.

It totally stunned me....I have a Les Paul....I have a Deluxe Reverb Reissue. Why the hell don't I sound like that?

So I set my amp exactly for what the guy had his at.

Wow....first impression was that it was loud...VERY loud.

Second impression was that I didn't need to cut anything or change anything. The amp sounded gorgeous...it sounded like it should sound like. The problem was with me asking for it to do something it wasn't ever intended to do.

Too many kids these days are buying these monstrous amps and complaining that they can't get them to sound good when they're using them at bedroom levels. Then they go and get a few pedals and suddenly their high-end amp is relegated to the same level of use as a cheap PA or solid state amp.

You'd be surprised how few watts you really need when you're actually cranking amps to the level they're designed to be pushed to.


Originally Posted by SkarekroughI think alot of problems exist in the fact that some amps are very bright sounding until you get them cranked, which is much louder than they will ever need them to be.

My Deluxe Reverb Reissue was that way when I got it. I spent two months contemplating cutting caps, different tubes, speakers. Then I heard a clip of this guy on the Les Paul forum running a Les Paul directly into a Deluxe Reverb and getting a Duane Allman tone DEAD on.

It totally stunned me....I have a Les Paul....I have a Deluxe Reverb Reissue. Why the hell don't I sound like that?

So I set my amp exactly for what the guy had his at.

Wow....first impression was that it was loud...VERY loud.

Second impression was that I didn't need to cut anything or change anything. The amp sounded gorgeous...it sounded like it should sound like. The problem was with me asking for it to do something it wasn't ever intended to do.

Too many kids these days are buying these monstrous amps and complaining that they can't get them to sound good when they're using them at bedroom levels. Then they go and get a few pedals and suddenly their high-end amp is relegated to the same level of use as a cheap PA or solid state amp.

You'd be surprised how few watts you really need when you're actually cranking amps to the level they're designed to be pushed to.

Good call!

On my Z it is the same story, it sounds kinda bright but when the tubes REALLY start cooking the mids start to jump outand the highs sound much more rounded.

Luke


Originally Posted by The Golden BoyNot just that, but generally speaking, the stereotypical Mesa sound is a really high gain scooped sound.

I was thinking more along the lines of Boogie cleans vs Fender cleans.

Despite the fact that Boogie cleans are more midrangy than the slightly scooped sounding Fender cleans, Fender's tend to cut better...which I attribute to their brighter overall sound.

Though they don't sound near as smoothe IMO.

I find that most guitarists have amps that are WAY too loud for what they need. Unless you are routinely playing arenas and large outdoor shows you will NEVER need more than 50 watts. Most guitarists I know would be able to get by with a Fender Champ or similar.

I own a Mesa DC-3, rated at 30 watts, and I am considering selling it because it is too loud for my needs, among other reasons. The highest I ever turned the master volume was 6, and that was at one of the biggest clubs in the city. Our drummer hits the skins VERY hard, but in rehearsal I only need to turn this thing up to 2 or 3 to get up to his level. Any more than that and I'm drowning out the bass and vocals, and making everyone in the room go deaf.

It has been said 1000 times, but let's just say it again to be clear: to get the most out of your tube amp, you need to CRANK IT. If it's too loud for you, sell it, buy a smaller amp, and spend the rest of the money on something you actually need. Either that, or buy a Hot Plate if you really feel the need to have a half stack in your bedroom.

Amps need to have enough output to provide tight bass and clean enough tone for the way you like to play rythym when set for the highest volume you normally gig with. I hate a muddy tone when I'm playing rythym. Normally, guitars with humbuckers need more power to stay clean and fart free than do Strats and Teles with single coils. I don't need an amp that's over 40 watts and most of my amps are around 18 to 25 watts...but I don't play that loud anymore: my ears are shot! If I do need more power I just bring TWO Deluxe Reverbs instead of one. Lew


Originally Posted by The Golden BoyHigh gain on guitars gets lost in a mix. Whenever you record, use less gain than you think you need, because it does mush things up. If you think you need that much gain, record a second identical, cleaner track, and see how you like the results- or mix it in with the mushy one. Think of Zeppelin, you remember those riffs being so massive and heavy, but when you go back and listen those guitar tracks are really clean.

Is that ever true. It reminds me of the Guitarmaggeddon contests I was in the last two years. The teenagers always used so much gain that you really couldn't hear any note definition at all.

And as the man says, that goes double when you're recording. Just get a guitar with good natural sustain and a pickup that blooms the notes well (like, say, a Jon Moore humbucker) and all you have to do is dig in some with just a little bit of break-up. The guitar tracks will sound HUGE. Recording with high supersoaker gain sounds like a beehive -- all harmonics, no fundamentals. You'll find yourself trying to EQ back the treble to fix this and you'll be left with nothing but a muffled tone, like a wiseguy gagged in the trunk of a car.

Post #400!


Originally Posted by seafoamerMy amps are stupid!

while your ampS are stupid, my AMP sucks


Originally Posted by Quencho092Just a brief rant about forum advice, and taking reviews with a grain of salt.

This is so true . . . and its one of the reasons that I have to be careful about offering pup advice. I play strictly through a modeling amp, into a mixer, into a Crown SS amp, and finally into a nice old set of Yamaha studio monitors. (Complete with very nice midrange and tweeters.)

I imagine that I'm hearing quite a bit more high-end and detail than many in here. And I'm sure its also the same reason I run 250k pots in all my guitars . . . even the 'buckers.

Artie

Yes, alot of kids (I am a quot;kidquot; but I dont) just PILE on the gain and alot scoop mids too, I shake my head at this. I have my gain knob at quot;5quot; 90% o fthe time, and when I crank it I sometimes turn it to quot;4quot;...I mean c'mon.

I have a Valvestate 20 (ino, it's small, but I'm not gigging yet) and for my quot;bedroomquot; level, my volumes at 2 or 3...and I find it sounds good around 4-5...although I jam quite a bit ( a little slow lately) and it has PLENTY of power to jam with drums, bass, other guitarists...hell I could jam with my peavey Rage158 and still be heard (sounded like **** tho).
The ntheres my friend (who i swear was secretly competing with me on gear until about a week ago)...he has the ValvestateII 50w (I have the 2000 series) and for his quot;bedroomquot; level its at like quot;1quot; so you don't even know how good the sound is. He Jams with a bassist and thats it and now hes like quot;I want a full tube ampquot; and he wants an AC-30..I'm like WTF you need that for!!! It will sound like **** until you get to turn it up which will be.....never!!! OMG he pisses me off sometimes (If you want to hear more..just ask) wow..I needed to get that off my chest.


Originally Posted by Kamanda~SD

jam with my peavey Rage158 and still be heard (sounded like **** tho).

yup, peavey rage 158 sucks
even with a ds1 for the distortion, i still have **** for tone


Originally Posted by screamingdaisyI was thinking more along the lines of Boogie cleans vs Fender cleans.

Despite the fact that Boogie cleans are more midrangy than the slightly scooped sounding Fender cleans, Fender's tend to cut better...which I attribute to their brighter overall sound.

Though they don't sound near as smoothe IMO.

I have a Boogie F-30 and it can be very bright...... maybe it's the EL-84s.