software

Just when I thought I knew quot;the wayquot; to string a guitar, a couple of sites show a different approach.

I think there's a thread in the Vault by Scott showing the quot;right wayquot; to string a guitar, using a kind of wrap-around knot at the start like this.

The Taylor site used to show the same method, but it's changed within the past year: from : localhost/Elixir site shows a very similar approach to the quot;newquot; Taylor method: from : localhost/up with the change? Is there a benefit to not using the knot? (sorry, couldn't help it )

Chip

Hmm, I don't use the knot, I do it similar to the last two but do one wrap over and the rest under to quot;lockquot; the string.

Did you see the last pic in the first link?!? What the?

from : localhost//forum/showthread.php?t=5248

When I first came to these forums, I was more or less only just starting out on guitar. I came across this thread in the vault, and now I swear by it.

Thankyou Scott!


Originally Posted by PFDarksideHmm, I don't use the knot, I do it similar to the last two but do one wrap over and the rest under to quot;lockquot; the string.

Did you see the last pic in the first link?!? What the?

Same here... in my experience using the quot;self lockingquot; method on strings heavier than about 0.030 causes premature breakage of the cores.....

I Never saw Scott´s post, or I´d have done a quot;quickie Tutquot; on teh way I (and Guru Dan Erlewine) feel wound strings should be strung up....

i do it similar to the new taylor method but with one wrap above also.

on that note...god bless the inventor of the locking tuner HAHAHA

-Mike

I can't even believe a Taylor tech is suggesting using wire cutters to remove the bridge pins, using the saddle as a cantilever! That's the dumbest thing ever!

Why would you risk marring the bearing edge on the saddle, not to mention putting cut marks on the bridge pins???????

For those that don't know, that's what the little cutout on a stringwinder is for. You use that little U shaped cutout on the end of a winder to pull the bridge pins up and out.

And for those with string winders without the U-shaped cut out, they do actually make a bridge pin puller.

Anyway, I've always used the self-locking method as described in the first link.

This picc of the MARTIN made me laugh out-loud

Originally Posted by More-Gear-Than-SkillThis picc of the MARTIN made me laugh out-loud
i've seen worse brotha, much much worse.


Originally Posted by Robbiedbee from : localhost//forum/showthread.php?t=5248

When I first came to these forums, I was more or less only just starting out on guitar. I came across this thread in the vault, and now I swear by it.

Thankyou Scott!

Sorry, but this is an absolutely dreadful way to string a guitar and is guaranteed to get you on the wrong side of your guitar tech if you ever take it to him for a restring.

Any knot in the string concentrates the forces at that point and promotes string breakage. It also makes the string difficult to remove and replace if you need to do maintenance and - here's the thing - although it seems secure it is actually less so, because it reduces contact with the string post.

I know this method has been recommended by various people since the year dot but it dates from the days when tuners had plain, cylindrical posts and friction contact was insufficient to guarantee stability. Modern tuners have a waisted profile which allows a simpler wrap to be used which is better for tuning stability as it increases the internal compression between neaighbouring coils creating a really tight wrap.

It's one of those things that has just been handed down from generation to generation without anyone actually challenging it.


Originally Posted by octavedoctorSorry, but this is an absolutely dreadful way to string a guitar and is guaranteed to get you on the wrong side of your guitar tech if you ever take it to him for a restring.

i highly doubt the guitar tech will get his knickers in a bunch because of using a dated restringing technique


Originally Posted by GearjoneserI can't even believe a Taylor tech is suggesting using wire cutters to remove the bridge pins, using the saddle as a cantilever! That's the dumbest thing ever!

Why would you risk marring the bearing edge on the saddle, not to mention putting cut marks on the bridge pins???????

For those that don't know, that's what the little cutout on a stringwinder is for. You use that little U shaped cutout on the end of a winder to pull the bridge pins up and out.

I confess to having used that technique myself; it is all in how you handle it. The saddle is easily hard enough to use as a fulcrum but in fact it is better to use a small piece of dowel on the back of the bridge as pressure on the strings (which are usually in place when you're doing this) can damage the saddle. However, if you are having to use this much force to remove the pins then there is something wrong with their fit. Unfortunately the little U shaped cutouts don't work very well...

The best bridge pin puller is based on a design formulated by John Brady, my friend's customer in Dundee.

from : localhost/www.rvguitars.co.uk/frame.htm

Originally Posted by nepalnt21i highly doubt the guitar tech will get his knickers in a bunch because of using a dated restringing technique

I do, because it slows me down. Most of the other techs i know feel the same way.

Doc - thanks for the explanation. The hourglass profile of the post will push the wraps together, while the knot would reduce contact with the post.

I've only had strings break up at the tuner during setups with a floating trem - lots of re-tuning going on - but I'm not sure the wrap/no-knot approach would make much difference in string breakage then.

Since I hate these Elixir phosphor-bronze strings so much, I may have to try the quot;newquot; Taylor technique tomorrow!

Chip

I know, time to let this pass on to page 2 and beyond...

Just used the quot;new Taylor methodquot; after re-reading their instructions. Earlier, I had missed the part about keeping 1-1/2 tuner lengths of string for the treble side and getting more wraps for the G, B and high E strings.

The stringing technique seems to work fine, and the quot;oldquot; Elixir nanowebs sound just like they're supposed to . Those phosphor-bronze strings sounded brassy amp; harsh to my ears.

Chip


Originally Posted by octavedoctorI do, because it slows me down. Most of the other techs i know feel the same way.

I just teach the customer how to string it up properly... It´s an annoyance, but it´s nothing huge IMO

The technique I use is called the piano maker wrap (sounds like a good title for a song..) although I routinely call it the Rickenbacker wrap because i pinched the idea from the techs at the Rickenbacker factory who use it when they are stringing guitars from scratch. Anyone whose tried it will know why.

It goes like this:

Attach the string to the bridge or tailpiece and pull it tight.

From the side opposite to the button, wrap the string around the tuner post between one and six times depending on the gauge of the string and the height of the tuner post. Some tuners, like the ones with the staggered post heights currently fitted to US Fenders, require less wraps for the thinner strings than conventional ones with uniform heights. It's important to keep the string under as much tension as possible while doing this. Wind the coil uniformly from the bottom of the post upwards making sure you have no crossed coils.

Hold the coil in place with your thumb and push the free end of the string through the eye of the tuner post then grab the free end and pull it through as tightly as you can then tug it back in the opposite direction to the tuner posts rotation to put a kink in the string so that it forms a Z shape where it goes through the tuner post's eye.

Give the string a tug to consolidate the wrap then bring it up to tension.

The aim is to have a neat, even wrap about the same depth as the tuner post's eye. the post's geometry causes all the coils to bunch up and trap the free end of the string against the top of the eye.

The method has several advantages; it's very quick - my record for stringing a Les Paul is three and a half minutes - and very secure. Because most of the wrap is done by hand the tuner is only used for the final stage of tuning, reducing wear and tear on the tuner's gearing. Because the tension of the string is distributed through the friction of the wrap (coils compress the tuner post over a length between 25 and 75mm and experience compression from at least one neighbouring coil as well) the load is taken off the edge of the eye, resulting in less string breakage and less risk of burring of the eye's edge from the string. Finally, the string is very easy to remove, requiring less force (or less delicate surgery, depending on your approach!) to remove the string from the tuner.

Incidentally, the Fender vintage tuners with the split post were designed to use a variant of this wrap.

BTW guys, I wasn't trying to dis Scott's post; the only part of the stringing technique I don't approve of is the reverse hitch where it is looped under the wrap: that's the bit that causes the problems. Everything else that's been said here about neatness etc. I'm in complete agreement with.

i dont understand half of that technique. lol, maybe some pics would be handy.

Follow up to my last post
Just had a look at that Taylor link - missed it the first time round - that's exactly how I do it, but without the additional bend on the cut side of the string which helps to stop the string pulling through the eye until it's up to tension. Some string manufacturers crimp the wrapwire after it's been wound to seal the wrap; I know DR do this so cutting the string before it's tuned is not preferred as it can loosen the wrapwire.

What about the Erlewine way of sticking it through the hole, doing one wrap above the part of the excess string and the rest below? I found as it pinches the string between two wraps, but nothing really obtrusive about it. I can't get it to work well on the unwound strings, so there I use Scott's method.