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Could this one be an alternative to the mid-only CC and the mid-lack C5 ?

I made one to put in my Explorer and love it. I find that it has most of the same character as the C5 with just alittle rounded off each end of the eq scale. Example of EQ curve would be:

CC 34567

c4 2345678

C5 123456789
In that guitar, the C5 had alittle flab in the lows. But the C4 rolled that off.Nice middle ground.

YES. I have a Custom 3 in my ES-355 but only because I wanted just a bit more chime than Alnico 4 could give -- for this particular guitar. I had it as a C4 before, though, and it still sounded great.

I highly recommend this mod. And try both the 3 and the 4.

I satisfied my curiosity by making a nickel covered C4, and the closest pickup I can compare it to would be a Jazz bridge. It's similar to a 59B, but it's got a harder feel under your fingers, and is very articulate. I think it'd be the perfect pickup for a loose sounding guitar like a 335 copy. I heard it in my LP, and it's a nice pickup, although I still think the A5 and A2 has the edge in feel, tone, warmth. I asked Seymour one time why they don't dabble in other magnets more, and he kinda shrugged and gave me the impression he was saying quot;what's the point, A5, A2, and Ceramic are the proven winners.quot; He didn't say those exact words, but that's the impression I was getting from him.

I tried it an thought it was kinda harsh and sterile.


Originally Posted by GearjoneserI satisfied my curiosity by making a nickel covered C4, and the closest pickup I can compare it to would be a Jazz bridge. It's similar to a 59B, but it's got a harder feel under your fingers, and is very articulate. I think it'd be the perfect pickup for a loose sounding guitar like a 335 copy. I heard it in my LP, and it's a nice pickup, although I still think the A5 and A2 has the edge in feel, tone, warmth. I asked Seymour one time why they don't dabble in other magnets more, and he kinda shrugged and gave me the impression he was saying quot;what's the point, A5, A2, and Ceramic are the proven winners.quot; He didn't say those exact words, but that's the impression I was getting from him.

At User Group Day, Evan said that with the Dun-Ager (altering strength of magnets), Seymour is able to approximate the tone of Alnico 3 and 4 and so doesn't feel he needs them.

I think Alnico 3 and 4 are just too different from Alnico 5 and 2 to be able to duplicate with aging A5, though in fairness to Seymour, he's never said he's trying to duplicate them, only that he's able to get enough variety of tones with the Dun-Ager when linked with his winds that 3 and 4 are unnecessary.

Lindy Fralin is so crazy about Alnico 4 that it's all he uses in his humbuckers -- though he told me (you can talk to him on the phone) that he stocks some Alnico 5 in case someone sends one back and wants more output and bite, which apparently happens just often enough that it's worth it to keep a little A5 on hand.

Bare Knuckle uses 2, 4 and 5.

My main man Jon Moore will use whatever you want, though particularly for vintage winds, he's partial to A3 and A4.

From a product perspective your portfolio can, and should, only be so big depending on your customer base and demand. That's probably why Seymour uses the Big Three magnets A2, A5, and Ceramic. Other stuff can just be custom made or modded etc, but not something you want to stock a lot of.

It's not an issue for me personally since I keep plenty of all four Alnico Bros. on hand, with a fifth brother (Alnico 8) on the way, so if I get a Duncan or any other pickup and want to tweak it with a magnet swap, I can. I have enough experience with pickups to be able to imagine what a given pickup will sound like with a different magnet.

However, since you can't swap magnets on Strat-style single coils, I really would like to see someone making single coils with Alnico 4. (Fralin makes a model with Alnico 3, as does Fender specially for the Eric Johnson Strat.)


Originally Posted by ZhangliqunIt's not an issue for me personally since I keep plenty of all four Alnico Bros. on hand, with a fifth brother (Alnico 8) on the way, so if I get a Duncan or any other pickup and want to tweak it with a magnet swap, I can. I have enough experience with pickups to be able to imagine what a given pickup will sound like with a different magnet.

However, since you can't swap magnets on Strat-style single coils, I really would like to see someone making single coils with Alnico 4. (Fralin makes a model with Alnico 3, as does Fender specially for the Eric Johnson Strat.)

Bare Knuckles will make a4 Strat pickups. I wouldn't expect the magnet differences to sound the same on single coils. Apparently a3 sounds weak and brittle on a single coil pickup. At least that is what I've been told about the a3 Fralins.

So if i can resume with Alnico 4 replacing alnico 5 you can expect:
less bass
less highs
more mids ? (it doesn't appear )
less power
more definition ( faster pick attack )
this is fine by me !!


Originally Posted by fab.regnautSo if i can resume with Alnico 4 replacing alnico 5 you can expect:
less bass
less highs
more mids ? (it doesn't appear )
less power
more definition ( faster pick attack )
this is fine by me !!

Alnico 4 has a flatter EQ curve and is much smoother, but with a bit less output.

If output is crucial to you, you can get a bunch of Alnico 4's and do the refrigerator test, see which one is hardest to pull off the fridge -- or just let them stick to each other and see which ones are the hardest to pull apart. The stronger ones will give you more output but still with A4 tone.

Thanks very much Zangli , you are very helpfull , and i will try to get some al4 to try in a TB5 and a SH1.

I use the alnico 4 7.5K/9.5K Lindy Fralins and love 'em. But like Gearjoneser said, there's a certain hardness to the tone and it's the price you pay for having an extremely articulate yet complex humbucker tone. For that reason most of my humbucker guitars use alnico 2 and alnico 5 pickups : the tone is warmer and more familiar. But to describe the alnico 4 humbucker tone, at least for Lindy's pickups, I'd say the the tone is more articulate and less blurry...and more bass and treble than alnico 2 and more mids thn alnico 5. Kind of like alnico 2 and alnico 5 rolled into one pickup, but more articulate than either. The 9.5K bridge humbucker has plenty of poop! That puppy is a screamer, IMO. And the 7.5K neck humbucker is clearer and more single coil like than any other humbucker I've used.

So why do I use Seth Lovers and PG necks too? Because they're more familiar and warmer...more like the sound I'm used to, grew up with and feel comfortable with. Lew


Originally Posted by LewguitarI use the alnico 4 7.5K/9.5K Lindy Fralins and love 'em. But like Gearjoneser said, there's a certain hardness to the tone and it's the price you pay for having an extremely articulate yet complex humbucker tone. For that reason most of my humbucker guitars use alnico 2 and alnico 5 pickups : the tone is warmer and more familiar. But to describe the alnico 4 humbucker tone, at least for Lindy's pickups, I'd say the the tone is more articulate and less blurry...and more bass and treble than alnico 2 and more mids thn alnico 5. Kind of like alnico 2 and alnico 5 rolled into one pickup, but more articulate than either. The 9.5K bridge humbucker has plenty of poop! That puppy is a screamer, IMO. And the 7.5K neck humbucker is clearer and more single coil like than any other humbucker I've used.

So why do I use Seth Lovers and PG necks too? Because they're more familiar and warmer...more like the sound I'm used to, grew up with and feel comfortable with. LewLew and GJ, what do you mean by *hardness*? I have a 7.5 Fralin in the neck of my V and *hard* would not be the adjective I would use for it


Originally Posted by gripweedLew and GJ, what do you mean by *hardness*? I have a 7.5 Fralin in the neck of my V and *hard* would not be the adjective I would use for it

I'm thinking especially of the neck Fralin...the 7.5K that you and I both love. It's very articulate and not so squishy and woofy as most neck humbuckers sound to me. I guess that's what I mean by harder...like the opposite of soft and squishy. It has a sharper and tighter tone...almost like a Strat neck single coil but with the big sound of a humbucker.


Originally Posted by LewguitarI'm thinking especially of the neck Fralin...the 7.5K that you and I both love. It's very articulate and not so squishy and woofy as most neck humbuckers sound to me. I guess that's what I mean by harder...like the opposite of soft and squishy. It has a sharper and tighter tone...almost like a Strat neck single coil but with the big sound of a humbucker.Got ya! I'm really gonna have to try one of the Fralin bridges soon! Maybe a 9 or 9.5k?


Originally Posted by gripweedGot ya! I'm really gonna have to try one of the Fralin bridges soon! Maybe a 9 or 9.5k?

I'd go 9.5K. It's really ballsy but not so hot that it stops sounding like a quot;vintagequot; pickup. That's kind of my take on the Fralins...they have a quot;vintagequot; tone but it's kind of an improvement on the vintage tone in that they are more articulate than any vintage pafs I've owned. But again: I like the Duncans just as much and the Duncan tone is warmer and more familiar.


Originally Posted by LewguitarI'd go 9.5K. It's really ballsy but not so hot that it stops sounding like a quot;vintagequot; pickup. That's kind of my take on the Fralins...they have a quot;vintagequot; tone but it's kind of an improvement on the vintage tone in that they are more articulate than any vintage pafs I've owned. But again: I like the Duncans just as much and the Duncan tone is warmer and more familiar.Oh you'd have to pry my Seth from my cold dead hands to get it away from me! As much as I complain about the '59 (actually, I'm beginning to think it's my Gibson amp fault that I get such brittle highs with it) I really love it too! I just really like an articulate neck pickup. I really prefer single coil guitars, and there is something in the Fralin that has that quality. But the 7.5 has this incredible midrange quality to it also. I can't find an adjective to describe it, but it is incredible!


Originally Posted by gripweedOh you'd have to pry my Seth from my cold dead hands to get it away from me! As much as I complain about the '59 (actually, I'm beginning to think it's my Gibson amp fault that I get such brittle highs with it) I really love it too! I just really like an articulate neck pickup. I really prefer single coil guitars, and there is something in the Fralin that has that quality. But the 7.5 has this incredible midrange quality to it also. I can't find an adjective to describe it, but it is incredible!

Yeah...I prefer Strat single coil neck pickups. That's why I have such a hard time finding a neck humbucker I can live with. The Fralins are just a little bit hard and sharp...the Seth and Antiquity are just a little to warm and smooth...and the Jazz has a little to much bass. For me.

I love bridge humbuckers for an overdriven rock and blues soloing tone...but no single coil neck pickup can really keep up with a bridge humbucker unless it's overwound...and then it doesn't have the same single coil tone that I love anymore! Anyways, the Fralin 7.5K is the most articulate and most single coil like humbucker I've tried...and you're right on about those mids!

Normally, you'll hear people singing the praises of A3 and A4 in neck humbuckers, and they really are a great magnet for necks. I still think that A5 and A2 sound the best in bridge humbuckers, where you want more bass or warmth. I think Seymour probably thinks he's got most tones nailed by doing what he's doing. If you're looking for a magnet swapped pickup, maybe you should just keep searching through the Duncan line till you get what you're looking for. I find it amazing that everyone overlooks the Jazz Bridge, because it's not even listed as a low output vintage pickup....it's listed under progressive! Jolly uses the Jazz set in his Pauls, and his tone is closest to Jerry Cantrell's....go figure! I put a Jazz Bridge in my strat, and it's one of the few humbuckers that mates perfectly with a strat neck/middle. The Jazz is articulate and punchy, so it may be the pickup for the guy looking at A4 magnets.