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I used to be able to buy as many as I wanted for between $300 and $600 Canadian, now the good ones (vertical input 2204 50w head) seem to all hover around $1000 US.

I've always known that they are the best, but is Zakk Wylde THAT influential?

What's the deal?

Trevor

It's probably because everyone can't use vintage marshall due to volume needed for distortion and new marshall don't have the marshall sound. I think the newer marshalls just have way too much buzzy distortion, not enough of thick distortion. That why a jcm 900 may be good middle line amp it can go either way and demand is alot lower for them. There's a couple other forum members that use them too, but el-34 version of course.

I'm refering to the 800, which is not a high-gain amp at all. I've never been a fan of the 900 and the only thing newer that I've really liked is the 30th anniversary.

I mean I bought a 1984 JCM 800 that had been owned by Bob Rock (Metallica producer) for $390 about 8 years ago, it was stolen, and the only ones I can find now have 6550 tubes (again, thanks Zakk) ew, and are priced like $800

Just ranting I guess...

It's just supply and demand, the early 80's verticle input 800's are outstanding amplifiers and there getting scarce.

The JCM800 is a very good baseline amp. What does it sound like? Well just about everything recorded during the 80's! Just like a Super Lead and a MKII JTM45 they are considered time proven. They are also very good candidates for modification. Whats funy about the jcm 900 is how it was desinged to sound like a modified marshall but yet many people say it is too midrange heavy and not enough gain. I guess it was just slightly behind the curve.

Snowdog

I can still hear the one that was stolen. It's the tone I chase and I can't get my hands on it again. I have owned about 5 JCM800's and a JMP Master Volume (same amp, but from the 70's) and none have been as good, althought the JMP would have been almost there is I'd re-tubed it.

I have only a few Gear Regrets, and that amp is the biggest.

Thanks for being a shoulder to lean on guys...

I hear ya on this one.... the prices are going up! I grabbed a beat up and abused early 80's Canadian Issue head for $500 Canadian from a local store.. It has been baddly modded for more gain and the vinyl has been ripped off the plywood and the corners are missing.... it's a real fixer upper.... but a lot better price then the $1200 jcm 800 i see in Toronto these days....

WHOFAN
ps-years ago when no one wanted Hiwatt heads i wished i had bought the ones i saw for $300...

The channel switching JCM800's (2205 and 2210) have twice as much gain as the single channel ones. Many people don't realize that when they say the JCM 800 series are quot;drierquot; sounding.

I just bought a 4212 combo for $500. It's cosmetically in good shape and it even has the original drake transformer. However it needs new tubes badly, and I'm thinking about changing out the Celestion 12T-75's

Yup, those vertical input models are catching a good buck these days. Supply and demand like mentioned. They have metal jacks hardwired, not plastic PCB mounted jacks like the horizontal input models. You can still get the horizontal input models for a good price but they are creeping up there because of the low supply of vertical inputs. There's a certain mojo in the early ones, most notably 1981 and 1982 model years.

I think Ebay and chat rooms like this have had a large part in upping the prices. It is easy to create a frenzy on the net. Marshall and most other vintage amps have skyrocketed the past few years. Even 2-3 years ago you could pick up an early 70s metal panel Superlead for 700-1000.00, now these are pushing 2 grand. It is a great time if you have a stockpile of these amps, better than the stock market as far as investment goes. If you don't have one now, it is a drag. Deals are tough to find.

I used to have a white 2205...it got stolen. It was a cool amp. I really miss it.

I'm about to install an alarm on my 900... God help the SOB who tries to take it from me. When the 800's are out of reach, the 900's will be the next ones everyone will be going after.


Originally Posted by ErikHI'm about to install an alarm on my 900... God help the SOB who tries to take it from me. When the 800's are out of reach, the 900's will be the next ones everyone will be going after.

I kinda wonder about that. The 900 series was (in my opinion) a huge step back. The 800 series was sort of the end of the old Marshall tone and then the 900 series introduced us to the way Marshall is today. Both are good (lots of great 900 tones out there) but the 800 series and earlier units had a clarity that was kinda lost in the 900 series.

I dont think increasing gain for gains sake is a good thing. Having said that one of the coolest high gain amp lines anywhere is the 900 series SL-X. Killer amps for metal guys.


Originally Posted by Archer_of_FishI kinda wonder about that. The 900 series was (in my opinion) a huge step back. The 800 series was sort of the end of the old Marshall tone and then the 900 series introduced us to the way Marshall is today. Both are good (lots of great 900 tones out there) but the 800 series and earlier units had a clarity that was kinda lost in the 900 series.

I dont think increasing gain for gains sake is a good thing. Having said that one of the coolest high gain amp lines anywhere is the 900 series SL-X. Killer amps for metal guys.

In a way I agree with you. The 900 Dual Reverbs were a step back IMO. The MkIII and SL-X models were not. They just kick total @ss. The High Gain Master Volume MkIII from 1990-1992 is the best of the 900 series IMO with the EL-34 loaded SL-X models right behind it. When the SL-X started coming with 5881's the tone went south.

1 on that because I hate the tone of newer marshalls when I try guitars in shops.


Originally Posted by Archer_of_FishI kinda wonder about that. The 900 series was (in my opinion) a huge step back. The 800 series was sort of the end of the old Marshall tone and then the 900 series introduced us to the way Marshall is today. Both are good (lots of great 900 tones out there) but the 800 series and earlier units had a clarity that was kinda lost in the 900 series.

I dont think increasing gain for gains sake is a good thing. Having said that one of the coolest high gain amp lines anywhere is the 900 series SL-X. Killer amps for metal guys.

Agreed. Absolutely.

I always wondered why the 2205 and 2210 were less popular when they had more gain. I loved my 2210 head. I also had a 2205 and foolishly traded it in. Best sounding head I ever owned.


Originally Posted by ErikHIn a way I agree with you. The 900 Dual Reverbs were a step back IMO. The MkIII and SL-X models were not. They just kick total @ss. The High Gain Master Volume MkIII from 1990-1992 is the best of the 900 series IMO with the EL-34 loaded SL-X models right behind it. When the SL-X started coming with 5881's the tone went south.I agree about the shift to 5881's. The 5881 is such a troublesome tube. Many love the hard (coarse??) tone of them...but many (like me) think they are just plain old nasty sounding.

I think Marshalls without EL34's are just flat wrong....


Originally Posted by Mac-PI always wondered why the 2205 and 2210 were less popular when they had more gain.

Alot of people didn't like

A) Diode clipping (thats a whole 'nother argument)
B) 6550 tubes
C) Most people's exposure to them was at the later versions which saw a drop in QC/quality of parts used.

The 900s like Erik is talking about (MKIII) were pretty damn good. But you gotta find one..it's like finding a good Les Paul. Some are quot;GAWDquot;, most are quot;goodquot; and a few are not so good. I had a Dual Reverb that fell into the latter category

I don't know a damn thing about electronics, but to me, Like a Fender...A Marshall is a complex sound, made with simple circuits...everytime Marshall adds complexity...whether its a Master Volume, Or an extra Gain Stage, or an Effects loop, or another channel (or three), a little of that quot;magicquot; is lost..cumulatively...

and that's why people snapped up the plexis for years...and then the NMV metalfaces when the realized they sounded just as good but in a different way...then it seems there's been a jump to 800s....everyone has pretty much snatched those up.

NOW people are finding out the JMPs of the 70s are pretty much as good or better than the metalface NMVs and the 800s. Prices are really rising on those and they are getting hard to obtain.

I don't think the 900s will command the same respect or desire because of their tone...but may do so for collectability... the quot;It's OLD, it HAS to sound goodquot; mentality...

Good tones CAN be found in the DSL/TSL, but they don't have the quot;magicquot;...they are too complicated for their own good...they sacrifice magic for versatility because modern players demand such things. I need 3 channels...I need a loop...I need a line out, I need ultra gain, and pristine clean, I need a cab simulator, I need.....blah blah blah....they are asking for things that ARE NOT in the classic marshall amps/circuits....which is very much :Plug in...jump the inputs if ya want..turn the volume to 10 and rock out...with your one HELLATIOUS sound...if you need more gain..step on a goose...if you need cleans, roll your guitar vol back. Need chorus..step on that little light blue box plugged into the front of the amp....

In amps, simpler = better, IMO as far as tone goes. Marshall is building what the market wants/needs in the 2000/MG/AVT line. But with a reissue head, some good tubes, and/or some work from a good mod person/new tranny... you can get those great quot;realquot; Marshall tones.

I agree 110%