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ok I played the stilleto today and this is what I did. I put it on 50 watt, with the switch set on the punchy setting. maxed the presence and gain and high's and low's and only half (5) on mid. thats about as gainy scooped as you can get on a el34 type amp. I played thru a half stack full of vintage 30's and bent down in front of the 4 speakers instead of sitting above them on a stool and realy listened to the amp. It was both punchy and clipy and the gain was there as well but not as gainy as a recto but thats due to the el34 tubes in this amp. I thought it sounded significantly better than my old jcm 800 marshall head wich lacked gain and bottom end, this amp had bottom end with the base maxed and I could get the american fat strat to chirp and squill nicely. it does have plenty of gain but again its not as pronounced as on the recto's with there 6L6 tubes but its there and it does have that nice el34 clip. I did not try the clean channel or other settings on the amp as I just wanted to see how crunchy I could get the thing mainly useing it for distortion only. Those in the know say Bogner has the clip and the real liquad gain to match. its also more than 2000 more than the stilleto. my guess is that there are gunna be the usuall amp hot rodders out there who will add that much more gain to the stilleto to make it that much better but for how much money? anyway the gain is fine for most things anyways but now I have to hear a bogner to see whats up as those with the cash to buy anything are swearing by them. still I have to wonder, if some one could hot rod the stilleto with even more gain for people just useing it for distortion only would it be a cheaper and almost as good as the bogners distortion? this I dont know.

damn how much gain do you need?


Originally Posted by Xeromusdamn how much gain do you need?
1.

I didnt get the chance to really crank the stiletto when I tried it out because the Guitar Center manager made me turn down a bit (I'm not one of those annoying, loud guitar store players either... the store was freaking empty!). But I didn't have the same reaction as you. If I had gotten the chance to crank it, my opinion might be different.

BTW- is that fuzzy treble sound in the stiletto like the recto's have?

i got to crank it pretty good. the recto's have the liquad gain cuz of the 6L6 tubes wich realy give you so much gain that it gets nasty fuzzy but thats the problem. most 6L6 amps have great gain but realy not great clip so you get drowned out when playing with other players cuz without great clip you just dont cut thru the mix very well. el34 tube amps have great clip but due to the nature of that tube lack alot of gain so you see guys trying to stack gain pedals infront of the amps to try to add additional gain for solo's. The dream is to get an amp that has great clip but enough gain that you dont have to add additional gain pedals for solo's. thats what ime after as well. I like the sound of Diezels but 4500? and I thought Bogners where exspensive


Originally Posted by Xeromusdamn how much gain do you need?

1

I've got to take one home with me for a night (the amp, stupid), and I really liked it. Great overdriven tones, lots of gain, nice crunch. The cleans are god to, compared to Marshall's and my own Soldano SLO 100 anyway. Easy to set up both channels for a god combination. This is my next GAS!

And there will surely come a time when someone will rod this amp as well! But I dont need that....


Originally Posted by philthisel34 tube amps have great clip but due to the nature of that tube lack alot of gain so you see guys trying to stack gain pedals infront of the amps to try to add additional gain for solo's. :

I'm gonna have to disagree with you about the statement that EL34 amps in general don't have a lot of gain. The Bogner Uberschalls are some of the gainiest amps on earth and they're EL34 based. A lot of the times is has more to do with the way the gain is staged in the preamp and how its fed to the power tubes, plus there's also what bias the tube is running at, what plate voltage you're running, and the types of tubes as well.

When you add a pedal basically what you're doing is bumping up the voltage that hits the preamp and that changes the way the amp handles the signal. It depends on what pedal you use but with my Fulltone OCD that I just got I see increased harmonic sensitivity, pushed high-midrange, and an overall tightening of the sound that makes it fat and smooth but agressive without being muddy. SS distortion has different characteristics than tube preamp and tube power amp distortion and getting a good sound requires balancing all three to your taste.

When I played the stiletto I thought it had more than enough gain for my taste. From what you're saying it sound like you'd like an even mix of saturated preamp gain plus that big, bold, expressive sound that only cooking power tubes can get.

What kind of tone are you after? Can you give me an example of something on a record?

If you're looking to hot-rod an amp, I hear Jeff Seal (forum member) is the E ticket for that and does wonderful work on Marshalls.


Originally Posted by Xeromusdamn how much gain do you need?

As I´ve said before: There´s no such thing as too much gain, only players that can´t control it


Originally Posted by B2DI'm gonna have to disagree with you about the statement that EL34 amps in general don't have a lot of gain. The Bogner Uberschalls are some of the gainiest amps on earth and they're EL34 based. A lot of the times is has more to do with the way the gain is staged in the preamp and how its fed to the power tubes, plus there's also what bias the tube is running at, what plate voltage you're running, and the types of tubes as well.

When you add a pedal basically what you're doing is bumping up the voltage that hits the preamp and that changes the way the amp handles the signal. It depends on what pedal you use but with my Fulltone OCD that I just got I see increased harmonic sensitivity, pushed high-midrange, and an overall tightening of the sound that makes it fat and smooth but agressive without being muddy. SS distortion has different characteristics than tube preamp and tube power amp distortion and getting a good sound requires balancing all three to your taste.

When I played the stiletto I thought it had more than enough gain for my taste. From what you're saying it sound like you'd like an even mix of saturated preamp gain plus that big, bold, expressive sound that only cooking power tubes can get.

What kind of tone are you after? Can you give me an example of something on a record?

If you're looking to hot-rod an amp, I hear Jeff Seal (forum member) is the E ticket for that and does wonderful work on Marshalls.

I agree with you that the ubershall does have a ridiculas amount of gain. it is not your standerd el34 tube amp though. it is of course botique and very customized. speaking on el34 tube amps most have not enough gain but great clip. I think what makes some of the botique amps like Bogner and Diezel so highly prized is that they have such great clip and gain at the same time. they are of course more than twice the price to get that kind of quality. I thought the stilleto did have good gain but I thought would I want more gain for solo's? boogies in my experiance dont work well with most distortion pedals in front of the amp. I thought Marshals work ok or better with them than boogies. However you guys may be right in that amp hot rodders will be all over this thing soon enough. I didnt try the cleans cuz I have a great clean amp already and just want to switch between the 2 amps. I have a mesa triaxis now as well but there is something about the relationship of the amp signal hittin the speakers in a 50 or 100 watt head that just seems to be missing in the triaxis. I just think the heads sound better. the other thing I can think of is the pickup in the guitar I was useing was not mine and was probabley a different model and that makes a big differance in tone as well. I did like the simplicity of the stilleto and the clip was nice. maybe thru my 2 2/12 vintage 30 cabs it would also be more of what ime used to. You guys may be right, it may have enough gain and I think takeing my own stuff (speakers and guitar)down to G.C. and playing it there would probabley be the ticket. thnx every one for the advice and input