software

I really don't want to offend, but I see little if any purpose in these.... Since I get to repair these things on a regular basis, I have tried as hard as I can to appreciate the whole quot;digitalquot; concept, but these things are like actually playing drums on a Casio keyboard! (regardless of your talent level, it's still just weak!). I'm well aware how many times this topic has come up, but I would just as soon play quot;unpluggedquot;......

hopefully, things will change, but I don't see it happening!....(rant over)

Jeff Seal

I agree with you to a certain extent, JS. I don't play through them because they just don't sound as good, but I think that it's all about what a particular player is trying to achieve. For a ton of versatility in a small package or for a bedroom amp that will rarely if ever be cranked up, I see the appeal.

That, and ignorance is bliss for some. If you've never heard the real deal amps that are being modeled, I can see how a reasonable facsimile would sound good to you.

I can't stand full on digital amps either (the ones I've heard), but I love my Boss GT-8 into my Mesa tube power section. I think I'm spoiled by all the sonic options.

I hate them for standalone tones, for sure.

For recording... You can get a pretty convincing tone with some good tweaking and layering.

And for cleans; for metal at least...fuggetaboutit, the PODxt owns.

I believe sound clips may be in order here, give me four days and they'll be at quot;tips and clipsquot; and you can judge for yourself....

I really will try to be quot;honestquot; about this.... and explain discrepancies from both sides......

Jeff Seal

Why go to all that trouble just to, in essence, to convince someone that they don't really like what they like?Originally Posted by Jeff SealI believe sound clips may be in order here, give me four days and they'll be at quot;tips and clipsquot; and you can judge for yourself....

I really will try to be quot;honestquot; about this.... and explain discrepancies from both sides......

Jeff Seal
i agree for the most part. it is nice to have a whole pallette of tones right at your fingertips, but in reality they just don't stand up to the real deal. and after owning a flextone for about 4 years, i've figured out what models i'll used, and what models i'll stay away from. out of the 32 models and 16 cabinet simulators, i really only use 2 or three of the amp models, two of the cab simulators, the only effect i ever touch is delay, and i still can't get a decent clean tone out of the thing if my life depended on it.


Originally Posted by St_GenesiusWhy go to all that trouble just to, in essence, to convince someone that they don't really like what they like?

Not speaking for Jeff, but I think that I understand where he's coming from with this. The modeling amps just don't do the real deal amps true justice. Not that they're bad, IMO, but they're not exactly the same. I think that Jeff is simply trying to illustrate the point that there is a difference in the two things. He's on a quest to educate. I guess we'll see if he's successful.

And I'm not arguing with him -- in fact, it doesn't seem ANYONE is arguing that modellers and the amps they model are interchangeable. I'm very glad that Jeff likes what he uses and i have precisely zero interest in convincing him otherwise.

I just don't get why someone would get so annoyed that other people like something that they would a) start a thread about it and then b) start making clips to 'prove' an issue of taste. It'd be like if I posted a quot;Sorry, but I can't stand Super Stratsquot; thread. It's true enough, but there are a lot of people here who get great use out of their Jacksons and Charvels and JEMs, so why would I start in trying to explain to them why I don't think that those instruments either feel or sound very good? It would waste my time and annoy them.

As I said, it's an awful lot of energy expended in the name of changing someone else's mind. We all like and use different stuff and for the most part, you don't see too many people going out of their way to piss on other's preferences. That's one of the things I like about these boards. Threads like this are, luckily, the exception.
Originally Posted by HamerPlyrNot speaking for Jeff, but I think that I understand where he's coming from with this. The modeling amps just don't do the real deal amps true justice. Not that they're bad, IMO, but they're not exactly the same. I think that Jeff is simply trying to illustrate the point that there is a difference in the two things. He's on a quest to educate. I guess we'll see if he's successful.

Originally Posted by St_GenesiusI just don't get why someone would get so annoyed that other people like something that they would a) start a thread about it and then b) start making clips to 'prove' an issue of taste. It'd be like if I posted a quot;Sorry, but I can't stand Super Stratsquot; thread..

1...I use an all digital GT-Pro direct to PA for live gigs, and I also use (gasp) guitar synth. If it works for me, great- and I am not trying to emulate old amps at all- I honestly don't care how they sounded- some sounds I have programmed don't even sound like a guitar at all.
I dislike the blues, vintage strats, teles and LPs, vintage Fender amps, JCM900s/2000s, emo, classic rock and sushi. I am fine if someone else likes that stuff. I don't need to shout what I don't like from the top of the hill in hopes to get a 'hell yeah' from the angry mob below.

The only way I can tolerate a modeler is to have it as a head version on a high quality cab, and then it's only for low volume practicing. Compared to my tube amps it doesn't have the complex goodness, and they never will.....it's just not physically possible for a modeler to capture a good tube amp tone. They can get the sound, but they can't equal the feel or touch sensitivity. They all have their place as tools in the toolbox.


Originally Posted by St_GenesiusI just don't get why someone would get so annoyed that other people like something that they would a) start a thread about it and then b) start making clips to 'prove' an issue of taste. .

I think I kinda get it. Think of something like someone who's an quot;expertquot; in guitars talking about their quot;expertisequot; in Les Pauls after playing an Epiphone LP. Add to that, as a repairman, that generally speaking- a lot of modelling amps are made quite cheaply overseas and prone to breakage.

I can understand that a modeler will never completely replicate the tone that it is intended to copy. That doesn’t mean that I believe all modeling or digital amps have poor tone… it just isn’t the same as the all tube tone it was intended to duplicate. One thing is for sure, though: the modeler almost always sounds better at bedroom volumes. I agree, though, that when operating is intended, there’s a warmth in all tube amps that is missing from digital amps. It’s really no different than the warmth that exists in vinyl records vs. compact discs.

For some of us, the quest for tone is an insurmountable task (monetarily). As mush as I would love to have a hand wired, 100 watt, modded master volume Marshall, I simply cannot afford such a one trick pony. For those looking for a variety of good tones, digital is the best option. Digital amps are getting better with every release, and pretty soon, the minute differences that exist between a modeler and the amp being copied will not be worth the extra $1000 that the real thing costs.

They have their place...

in the garbage can Seriously..I've just been through all this BS w/ digital and tube hybrid modelers and ..pfft...they ARE good for recording, and for low volume they sound quot;OKquot; but thats it, IME. Personally I don't wan't quot;OKquot;. I want quot;greatquot;.

c.f. my post in the DR. Z review thread



It all depends on what you NEED. I've got a Valvetronix with no issues. I'm probably the next to worst player on here, only play at home and only ever will. I know the models of my Vox don't sound exactly like what they are imitating, because with the exception of the Dumble, I've played all of them. But they are passable for what I'm doing, not everyone that plays guitar does it on stage or studio for a living. It's fills a niche. And I like to play everything from Fender to Mesa and in between.

Besides, If I had Marshall, Vox, Fender, Soldano, Mesa, and Dumble stacks in my living room, where would I put the furniture?

Jeff S., I'm not offended by your post, no reason to be offended over someone's opinion. Digital doesn't work for a lot of people and that's cool.

i always forget ... what kind of amp was seymour using at the UGD jam ... what was it ... thinking ... thinking ... damn, i just can't remember ...

for you guys who were there, how was his tone?

t4d


Originally Posted by smauk43

I'm probably the next to worst player on here, only play at home and only ever will....... not everyone that plays guitar does it on stage or studio for a living

Well, then you are one up on me And I agree...however...no matter who you are, or where you do or don't play, if you are not happy with the sound you are getting, playing is no fun. I play at home 99.9% of the time as well...but when I'm struggling to get a sound I can live with, and tweaking constantly, I get frustrated..when I get frustrated I stop playing. Then I have to do work around the house, and thats no fun either.

where would I put the furniture?

If you had all those amps, who cares?

thing is.. not everyone can afford a tube amp.
not many are playing pro's that need a halfstack or fullstack at home, cant blast it that loud and what's more, they cant buy a lot of amps..

so the digital amps offer a cheap, easy, good enough sounding solution for home/small gigs.
no, they are not tube like, yes, they are good if you use them for what they were designed.

pro musicians and people like that, can afford kickass tube amps and what's more, a lot of them, so they got one amp for whatever they want to play.

so dont get all supperior, because you can afford better gear than some and use it outside the bedroom. i cant see someone cranking their powerball full stack they got in their bedroom in a city. just not going to happen.
i say again, for someone that is a home player and plays only for fun, there is nothing better than a modeling amp. NOTHINGdont have anything against you jeff, but some people on here act like they're the ****, just cos they can get class gear.

you need to see modeling amps for what they are... and not use it if you want a goddamn marshall plexi

Boy... Some of you guys seem to be taking all of this in a very personal way. So what if someone hates digital stuff? It's their right, just as it is your right to disagree. I didn't read JS's post to be a personal affront to anyone, just a statement of preference.