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So this really has been bothering me. Some guitars are more than the sum of their parts. This is usually the case with Fenders. That's not to say it isn't the case with LP's SG's 335's, and PRS' but they all start off using premium woods and parts.

Particularly the strat, and second place goes to the tele.

Leo made these guitars of readily available, inexpensive wood. Everything he did was about economy, and practicality.

Strat
Plain maple neck (not figured)
Alder body
Plastic pickguard with electronics mounted to it (give me a break how cheesy!)
Internal trem (very revolutionary, but look at all the wood removed, and that plastic, non-flush plate)

Tele
Plain maple neck (not figured)
Ash Body
Plastic pickguard with neck pup mounted to it,
Metal plate with pots, caps, and switch attached.
One piece bridge tailpiece, with 3 saddles

A bolt on neck, what is this? A JOKE? You know that's what a lot of guys thought when they first saw bolt on necks.

What gives here?

Luke

It sounds like it's about building guitars economically and quickly.
How in the world did guitars with that kind of design, assembly and production become so popular?

Or does it mean that a guitar need not be woodcarved masterpieces with state of the art electronics in order to produce melodious tones in the hands of an able artist?

even while leaving out the mythical mojo that gets built-in, i think you left out the emotional component that the 'pile of parts' takes on in context ... if the electric guitar had sounded like a$$, it wouldnt have caught on and become intertwined with the culturo-emotional current that is rock-n-roll, country, etc ... we play because of how it makes us feel and how it makes others feel when we play ... bringing that to the masses was the genius of leo's elegant simplicity ... what other instrument can you set on fire and still have it kick a$$!! ??


Originally Posted by tone4dayseven while leaving out the mythical mojo that gets built-in, i think you left out the emotional component that the 'pile of parts' takes on in context ... if the electric guitar had sounded like a$$, it wouldnt have caught on and become intertwined with the culturo-emotional current that is rock-n-roll, country, etc ... we play because of how it makes us feel and how it makes others feel when we play ... bringing that to the masses was the genius of leo's elegant simplicity ... what other instrument can you set on fire and still have it kick a$$!! ??

Where is the on-board fire extinguisher?


Originally Posted by Luke DukeLeo made these guitars of readily available, inexpensive wood. Everything he did was about economy, and practicality.

Another website, (All Things Strat maybe), pointed out that it was sheer dumb luck that inexpensive wood just happened to sound good. Originally Posted by Luke DukeA bolt on neck, what is this? A JOKE?

This guy makes a pretty good case for bolt-on necks.

But you're right . . . I have several quot;cheapquot; guitars, that sound killer.

Artie

Dumb luck, that's all I can call it guys. I do think it's amazing though how well these guitars perform when you look at what they are.

Luke


Originally Posted by Luke DukeDumb luck, that's all I can call it guys. I do think it's amazing though how well these guitars perform when you look at what they are.

Luke

...or serendipity...as in perhaps it's not as much quot;sciencequot; as it's made out to be? This a realm where tonal tastes and feel are so very subjective and personal. One guys treasure is another guys junk

Excluding guitars that are absolute junk (won't stay in tune, electronics don't work, that type of thing) the magic is in the player moreso than in the instrument. Have you ever seen a great player pick up what you regard as being a piece of junk guitar and make it sound great? I have on many occassions and I think that it illustrates the point perfectly. Had Leo made the things out of balsa and particleboard and someone played it and made it sound great, our idea of good tone might be totally different.


Originally Posted by HamerPlyrExcluding guitars that are absolute junk (won't stay in tune, electronics don't work, that type of thing) the magic is in the player moreso than in the instrument. Have you ever seen a great player pick up what you regard as being a piece of junk guitar and make it sound great? I have on many occassions and I think that it illustrates the point perfectly. Had Leo made the things out of balsa and particleboard and someone played it and made it sound great, our idea of good tone might be totally different.

This is a good point as well.

Silvertones/Danelectros are another guitar brand that amaze me. I played a silvertone bass that was an amazing sounding Pop/Rockabilly/boogy bass. Talk about cheap, made of masonite!

BTW
Obviously I'm including Hamer in the category of they are SUPPOSED to turn out good category since they use such amazing tonewoods etc.

What i love most about Fenders is most major parts can be replaced easier then most other companies.... Snap a neck off..... oh well bolt another one on... Their trem system was a stroke of genius.. It is not a perfect system but they did get a lot of things right the first time.. I do believe that it was the popular players that made the Fender guitars famous... a lot of players in the early 50's laughed at the Fenders when they first came out on the market... But Fender carried on and became almost a household name in a few short years.... Buddy Holly i think had an impact... the surf scene had an impact, then Hendrix... man oh man.... Now Hendrix must of sold more Fender guitars then any other person....


Originally Posted by ArtieTooAnother website, (All Things Strat maybe), pointed out that it was sheer dumb luck that inexpensive wood just happened to sound good.
Artie

Interesting... my other instrument is the bagpipes which are traditionally made out of very expensive African Blackwood. A lot of cheaper woods have been used over the years - but nothing can match the richness of sound produced by this very dense wood. That's why my pipes are worth $2500.

Imagine if they'd done what they originally wanted to do....use PINE!!!

What I find amazing is that they hit the nail on the head in the 50s/60s.

In order to actually improve on those guitars, you've got to make them the exact same way. Even if you improve on the quality of parts, you may not get a 'better' tone.
Gamp;L is a prime example. Leo did everything he could to improve a Fender. What he ended up with was a guitar that doesn't sound or feel like a Fender. Not better, not worse, just a different guitar. The tiny details make a world of difference.

Keep in mind that with a few brands, a lot of the design effort went toward aesthetic (sp) elements that have nothing to do with music: flame maple tops, binding, fancy inlays, gold hardware, etc. Fender guitars were designed as purely functional instruments with minimal concern for appearance. Despite that, they are very attractive guitars in their own way.

Buy an MiM if you want a fender where all you are paying for is the cost of parts.


Originally Posted by RW JamesInteresting... my other instrument is the bagpipes which are traditionally made out of very expensive African Blackwood. A lot of cheaper woods have been used over the years - but nothing can match the richness of sound produced by this very dense wood. That's why my pipes are worth $2500.

See there's the other side of the fence. A LP can't sound like an LP with an alder body, just like your bagpipes would sound like dung if they were made of pine. You've got to have that expensive high quality wood for that tone.

Luke

The fact that Strats are amazingly durable and reliable is not subjective. It was designed very cost-consciously but it is still well built. Combine that with an unusually good-sounding hunk of alder or ash and you've got a wonderful guitar no matter how you slice it. Genius or accident, the slant of the bridge pu was a great idea. Although all that acreage of plastic (pickguard) does have a bit of a Fisher-Price vibe about it...


Originally Posted by Luke DukeSo this really has been bothering me. Some guitars are more than the sum of their parts. This is usually the case with Fenders. That's not to say it isn't the case with LP's SG's 335's, and PRS' but they all start off using premium woods and parts.

Particularly the strat, and second place goes to the tele.

Leo made these guitars of readily available, inexpensive wood. Everything he did was about economy, and practicality.

Strat
Plain maple neck (not figured)
Alder body
Plastic pickguard with electronics mounted to it (give me a break how cheesy!)
Internal trem (very revolutionary, but look at all the wood removed, and that plastic, non-flush plate)

Tele
Plain maple neck (not figured)
Ash Body
Plastic pickguard with neck pup mounted to it,
Metal plate with pots, caps, and switch attached.
One piece bridge tailpiece, with 3 saddles

A bolt on neck, what is this? A JOKE? You know that's what a lot of guys thought when they first saw bolt on necks.

What gives here?

Luke

Why does that bother you? Doesn't it measure up to your high manufacturing standards? You sound as if you wished it to fail.

In 1954 wasn't plastic considered a new, novel hi-tech material?


Originally Posted by Zhangliqun

Although all that acreage of plastic (pickguard) does have a bit of a Fisher-Price vibe about it...

Originally Posted by Guitar Toad

In 1954 wasn't plastic considered a new, novel hi-tech material?

It had been a round for a while already, but how Leo figured out just how much he could use and still pull of a professional instrument is beyond me.Originally Posted by Interstate 70Why does that bother you? Doesn't it measure up to your high manufacturing standards? You sound as if you wished it to fail.

I'm simply saying it was so----------gt; far ---------------gt;out ----------------gt;there, back in 54 and compared to say an L5 all the plastic might have been considered a bit cheesy. It's insane that a guitarist's best friend wasn't a guitarist, just a frugal engineer.

If you'll notice I'm drawing attention to how these pieces sound together is something altogether different and unique than each piece would sound in a different setting.

Luke


Originally Posted by Luke Duke

It's insane that a guitarist's best friend wasn't a guitarist, just a frugal engineer.

Luke

I will always prefer the frugal engineer to the elitist designers.

I believe that high end guitars are more marketing than substance. They have figured out that they can maximize their profit by putting a little more woodwork into their guitars and shiny paint. They are marketing geniuses.