software

Ok, Im wanting a Les Paul. However, I cant afford one. Ive been looking for a great deal on a used studio and have looked at a bunch.. I find in the used market that used studios run $850 on up and standards about 1200 and up. Many (most) that I find at the minumum or less, are usually pretty abused. That kinda money I really dont have, but if I were to rummage it up, I dont want an abused guitar.. So...
Ive been looking at Epiphone LP Customs as these seem to be the best of the Epis and I love the looks of a custom. However, I know they are using Alder pretty liberally now in epis and Id like to stick with the classic Mahog/maple wood setup. Now.. I have noticed the price on the Epi Elites has come down some. I have never seen one personally or played one. How are they? Thank you

An Elitist is a Japanese gibson, made where they made Orvilles. I believe they are marketted in Japan as Gibsons, and their quality is said to rival US gibsons. (never played one...)

Alternatively, if you don't care about things like binding, fancy inlays etc. and the body being SG width, you'll do good to pick up an old The Paul II (I was in your position earlier this year...)

They don't quite sound like a quot;realquot; paul, more like a paul crossed with an SG. But I found a Jem and liked it overall, so I picked it up. 600 bucks should be about right.

I would seriously look at a used Orville (look on ebay)

slade

You might also look for a used Heritage H150 - okay so they have an ugly headstock but they're made from excellent quality wood, pickups, hardware and electronics. The orville is also a nice les paul copy, well made with quality materials.

I would try to find a Orville Les Paul. Orville are the same as Epiphone, but the ones I've played are better.

Greco and Tokai are also great Les Paul Clones. Easy to find, and not that expensive. Check them out.

Good luck!

Pretty much any Epi new pups = a nice axe, IMO. Not saying you should definately go for it, but you're wise to consider it.

Scoured Ebay last night looking for Orvilles. They were almost all $750 plus. Most were $800 and over and then there was $70-125 for shipping from overseas. I found a Custom that I love, but its $125 to ship from Japan. For $900 Im just gonna go with a Gibbie. I can score new Elites for $699. I may go that way. Ill look at Heritages tonight. Thanks for that suggestion, I always forget about Heritages cuz I usually only think of new ones and they are $1000 plus.Thanks all! Anymore input on Elites would be appreciated!

For $699, the Elite should be a great axe. I've played on briefly, and was impressed overall. Nice feel, great looking top, nice fretwork and inlays. I think they even come with Gibson USA electronics and pups (not sure which ones though). If you're going to spend $1000, my opinion is to save just a little longer and get a good used Gibson LP. You can get them in very nice shape for under $1400 if you are patient. For $699, the Elite should rock.

last I checked, the Elite went for over $900. For the price, why not save another 200-300 bucks and get one that will retain value

The first quot;The Paulsquot; are interesting because they have a walnut body. I've played a couple before, and they didn't sound like les pauls or like sgs. They were brighter than sgs, but not as complex as a les paul.

Here in Canada, the cheepist Elitist I can get is the studio model for about a grand. I can get a nice tokai for around $800 though. I played an elitist studio when they first appeared up here. It sounded good and I liked the neck, and they use the right woods.


Originally Posted by dogcityrockerlast I checked, the Elite went for over $900. For the price, why not save another 200-300 bucks and get one that will retain valueBecause this is a bull**it answer. Not just by you. But by many in general.

Not everyone like Studios, Specials, Mahoganies, etc..

And lets compare a spade to a spade. LP Standard to LP Standard.
Not Standard to Studio or Standard to Special.

Also, when you walk out that music store with a Gibby LP Standard, you will lose $400 or $500 on resale. It will take years before you recoupe that loss back and be able to sell you 2005 for what you paid.

This being said, older Japan replicas are maintaining the value quite well.
Go look at the prices Japan Tokais and Orvilles are fetching theses days.
The popularity of Japan replicas has grown quite a lot over the past few years. Thus, they are getting over $700 now compared to a few years ago at $300 when people hardly knew about them.

Already the first Japan Epiphone Elites have become somewhat collectable do to having the Elite name instead of the Elitist name.

And who knows how long Gibson will keep the Elitist line, or long it will be before manufacturing is switched from Japan to Korea. To keep them cost effective.
So, those Japan Elite/Elitist may not be a bad snag right now after all.

There are some really great Japan guitars out there.
Ones that are even on par with Gibson Historic.
Tokai LS320
ESP/Navigator NLP350
Older top of the line quot;Orville by Gibsonquot;
Others that we in the state don't even have a clue about because they are Japan market only.

Dog,
again my rant is not aimed directly at you.
It's aimed at that mantra that said blindly over and over again. The quot;why not by the real thingquot;.
Not everyone likes the real thing.

I for one don't. I hate Nitro. I prefer Acrylic lacquer or Polyurethane.
So, the Elitist LP Standard would be a much better choice for someone like me, and it would retain many of the features of a Gibby LP Standard that I like..
It's great quality, and would cost me a grand less.
That's some nice other gear or studio time.OK, rant off.
Sorry folks.

Kent

OH, one last thing.
Guitars should never be bought as investments.
They should be bought to be played.

Remember the 80's when you couldn't give a Gibson away.
Nothing says it can't happen again.

Not too long ago those 80's shred axes were at now what Gibson was at back then.
As of late there's been a lot of interest in Superstrats again.
USA Jackson Soloists and Dinkies, Japan ESPs, Japan Ibanezs, are gaining strength again. Getting harder to pick them up for a song.

Kent


Originally Posted by JimbojsrPretty much any Epi new pups = a nice axe, IMO. Not saying you should definately go for it, but you're wise to consider it.

A month ago i would of disagreed with you and said that All Epi's suck.... But after fixing up an Epiphone Exployer that had a broken Headstock, i love it! It sounds and plays great!!! It sounds more Gibson then my real Gibson Les Paul oddly, but it is a 70's Deluxe so there you go.... My other Epi is a LP standard and i don't like it much.... It also had a broken Headstock that i repaired..... I repair all sorts of guitars and use them. I couldn't care about the damage..... I'm a Who Fan. But i also enjoy the repair work.

But i have been finding that the pickups in the new more expensive Epi's are OK but the main thing to replace is the Pots, Jack, hook up wire and Switches. Do this and you will get rid of a ton of noise and faults. At the very least get those pots out of there. I spent the cash and put real Gibson pots in my Exployer and the improvement was really wicked! I wouldn't of believed it.

WhoFan


Originally Posted by khermanAnd lets compare a spade to a spade. LP Standard to LP Standard.
Not Standard to Studio or Standard to Special.
This is something I'm going to have to object to. To compare a spade to a spade, why go by what the product is called instead of by how much it costs? Going by cost makes much more sense since we're trying to figure out how much guitar you get for the money. By cost, it's perfectly fine to compare a new high end epiphone with a new low end gibson or something in the used market. But if you're going to consider a used Gibson, why not also consider used epiphones?

Just because something cost less doesn't make it a inferior product.

People need to compare products by features and build quality.
Fine and dandy if you want to compare a Elite standard to a Gibby Studio as long as your comparing it for each ones features and quality. And then you decide which one best suits you as a player.

Unfortunatley most don't when this topic is brought up.
They automatically think because something cost more or has a Gibson logo on it, that it automatically has to be better.
That's not true.

And why would one compare a Special to a Standard. Two completely different guitars with different sounds. But, people do. They go quot;gee why buy an Epiphone elite LP Plus when you can by a REAL Gibson LP Special for lessquot;.

Does that make any sense?

The quality of the Epi elitist easely overlap into Gibson Production territory.And why compare a Epi Elitist Standard to a Gibson Standard?
Because that's what the Elitist standard was design to mainly be an alternative to.
For those that like the features of a Gibby Standard but not the price tag.

As I said many times . If Gibson would have put Orville on that headstock instead of Epiphone we wouldn't even be having this debate.
People are unwilling to accept the Epi name on these guitars because of the stereo type on their Korean siblings.
But, people are willing to accept the Orville name. Often praising the build quality.
Dis Epi elite, praise Orville. Despite being made in the same factory. Only the name has changed over the years.
The Elites actually have upgrades from the original Orville line.

Kent


Originally Posted by khermanJust because something cost less doesn't make it a inferior product.
Duh. But if you know how much you want to spend, then why compare a $500 Epiphone to a $2000 Gibson?

I bought a used Agile 3000 the other day, it was mint and it had super workmanship...everything was nice on it AND it had a ebony board....no copies come like that. This thing feels alot better than my epi custom and weighs in at 10 lbs. Someone put a Pair of Dimarzios in it. The pots and wiring are top notch, Grover tuners...abalone inlays. This was a very nice LP copy and they are only 359 new! I wont even tell you what I paid for this one......youd cry. Bad thing is you cant go touch one....they are mail order. But if they are all of thgis quality......Id recomend one.


Originally Posted by theboatcandreamDuh. But if you know how much you want to spend, then why compare a $500 Epiphone to a $2000 Gibson?

who said I was comparing the $500 EPi to a $2000 Gibson.
Build features are quite different.
Where as the build features of a Epi Elitist and a Gibson Standard are quite similar.

People need to do their homework.
They need to find out what exactly makes two guitars the same or different.
Not just price.
You should also get as much testamonials from seasoned players that have played these instruments. That's why it's important to read the last paragraph on ther HC reviews. I would trust the review of a 20 year player over a 1 or 2 year player.

As mentioned above. Agile.
The new Agile AL3500 is priced around $500. The same as a Korean Epi LP.
But! the features and build of the Agile AL3500 are much much closer to that of the Japan Epiphone Elitist LP Plus (which we know normally sells in the $1000 range new).
so why compare a $500 guitar to a $1000 guitar?
As you said yourself. To see exactly how much guitar you are getting for your money.
And why is the Agile cheaper. Well, your buying direct. Otherwise if it was offered to other retailers, and Rondo was just a distributer, it would be in the $800 to $900 range.

Look at Heritage. Sell around the $1200 range even new.
Damn fine instrument. Just because it's $800 less than the Gibson LP Standard, does it make the Gibson a better guitar?

The Dean EVO Premium . Best kept secret out there.
Czech made. Quality was right up there with the USA Deans.
But, people dismissed them as being part of the Korean EVO Select line.
WHY? because they didn't do their research.
You can score these on ebay used for around $600. They sold for around a grand new when they were in production.

The Gibson name has a lot of prestige and history behind it. Tha't why they can command the prices they do for the Production models.
But, Hamer USA Studio custom (which I feel is a much better built instrument)
will depreciate much quicker, and can be found in the $1000 range used.
Does it's resale, prestige, heritage, make it an inferior guitar to the Gibson production? of course not.
But, people are willing to pay $1600 for a use LP standard, but not look at the used $1000 Hamer Studio custom sitting next to it just because of the headstock name.

All I'm saying is don't judge by name and price alone. Otherwise your missing out on a lot of really great guitars. Just do a little digging and find out as much as you can about a guitar.

if you like the Gibson for the product and it fits your needs as a player. That's fine go for it.
But, if your buying for the name, or because it cost more, or because someone told you only the real deal can do it, your just kidding yourself.

Kent

Dean Evo Special, mine is a quilt amberburst. But i think they come in flame tops also now. This may be lower end than you are looking for, being Korean made. But it is USA quality if u ask me. $449 new
Edit: You said u wanted mahog, They are a thick chunk of mahogany with a thick maple top and binding

Gibson prices are the result of marketting, not of prestige or history. When they lowered prices, sales suffered. By overpricing their guitars, they actually gaurantee themselves a higher level of business.


Originally Posted by theboatcandreamGibson prices are the result of marketting, not of prestige or history. When they lowered prices, sales suffered. By overpricing their guitars, they actually gaurantee themselves a higher level of business.If your talking about when they lowered prices in the '80s . Gibson didn't suffer sales because of the price drop.
It was because Norlin was forcing them to put out a crappy product.
People knew it. They aren't dumb. They just plain out didn't buy the things.
Gibson sales were already suffering before the price reduction. Gibson tried to spark interest by reducing prices. It didn't work. It was a last ditch effort. Gibson almost became non existant. If it weren't for the current owners buying them, Gibson would have gone under. It's taken well over a decade for the current owners to reverse the damage Norlin did.
The damage Norlin did is the reason why guys were hunting down the Japan replicas back then. Why Tokai, Edwards, Navigator, Greco, Orville, as well as replicas by Ibanez, Ari Pro, and Yamaha became known.
They were building Replicas at the time that were closer to the Gibsons of the 50s and 60s than what Norlin was offering.
The new owners realized this and that's why there is Gibson Historic today.

quot;By overpricing their guitars, they actually gaurantee themselves a higher level of businessquot;

Isn't that Prestige?
1 : standing or estimation in the eyes of people : weight or credit in general opinion
2 : commanding position in people's minds

The prestige of owning a $2000 guitar.

And as for Heritage/History. What are the UBER LPs? The '58, '59, and, '60.
Most notably the '59.
A lot of great artists were playing them ,and great songs were recorded with those guitars.
the History of those guitars and artists have great impact on sales today.
Again, that's why there's a Historic line. For those that can afford the presitge of owning a guitar that replicates the looks, tone, and feel of those early Gibsons.

Heck why do you think, Heritage chose the Heritage name.
Because of the pride in the history of the Kalamazoo factory they are built in. That's a big part of Heritges sales pitch.
Ever notice there are not very many Heritage ads?
The rely heavly on word of mouth and that History behind them. It's also what helps keep their prices down.

Yeah, your right that the higher price puts Gibson in price range for an elite crowd. But, they haven't really moved too much farther the last couple of years with those prices. And due to economics many other US companies are in that range now as well. Gibson and PRS just got the jump on them.
USA Parkers, USA Jacksons, USA BC Rich, Etc.. all command a similar price range now. Even the prices of Carvins have bump higher. Once the USA direct priced guitars you could get for around $600 new, now command prices above a $1000.

USA guitars are getting harder to afford.
Peoples pocket books can't keep up.
This is a reason why Overseas guitars have gained popularity as an alternative. That and the fact the overseas quality has improved greatly over the years. Thank you CNC.