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I know the point of reference isn't quite as classic rock as the tastes of this board, but I was hoping perhaps someone here could point me in the right direction for arranging and recording tight, multipart harmonies like those found on BR records. Whenever I start layering things, it just counds crowded and clumsy even when the performances are spot-on. I can't seem to figure out how to create the sonic cohesion of a background gang vocal.

You try panning stuff?

I love BR to death. My favorite band.

I'd like a couple of pointers as well... Graffin's harmonies are just to kill for....

They probably EQ the takes differently. Maybe Brett's voice is really in the background that naturally lands on a different range.

I don't know anything about BR, but these days most big bands use auto-harmonizers and auto-tune (sigh)

It's easy to clutter up a mix when u have multiple harmonies going on on top of a full band. A commonthing i do is: pick an area in eq land where each background vocal lives amp; breathes the best. Then cut the crap out of most of the other frequencies. Do this for each vocal line.

Also, get creative with the panning. If u can give each sound it's own area in the eq amp; panning spectrum, it will make ur music sound less cluttered.

I can't stress enough the cutting of un-needed frequencies in ALL sounds/tracks. If you do this for every sound/track in ur miix, ur stuff will be much more listenable.

What about compression? SHould I be compressing the hell out of the BG vocals in order give them a smoother, more uniform level or letting them have most of their natural dynamic range?


Originally Posted by Benji2204I don't know anything about BR, but these days most big bands use auto-harmonizers and auto-tune (sigh)

They've been doing this for years- and on a budget that didn't include going to a studio that has craploads of quot;Fancy-Pants 2000quot; gear. Besides, they pull off a reasonble facsimile thereof live.


Originally Posted by St_GenesiusWhat about compression? SHould I be compressing the hell out of the BG vocals in order give them a smoother, more uniform level or letting them have most of their natural dynamic range?

Well, u got to use ur ears to answer that. But, compression is a very useful tool, esp. when dealing with multiple melodies that u want blended together. Watch your quot;s'esquot; too. Use a De-esser, or duck out exessive hissing from quot;s'esquot;.

Pan.

PAN.

PAN!!

Seriously, the use of the full stereo field seems to be the one thing 90% of the local-level artists I hear doing wrong on their recordings.

My method is to keep the lead vocal dead center, and pan each successive harmony further and further into left and right, without ever going further than say, 60% left or 60% right (unless you're going for some kind of stereo effect with the vocals).

EQ and compression are definitely useful tools and should be used to help backing vocals blend into the mix, but I can't stress the importance of panning. It's my main pet peeve with a lot of local band's guitar tracks as well.

quot;we only have one guitar player, so we only need one guitar track. We'll just put it in the middle of the mixquot; with the bass and kick and snare and lead vocal. Not a good idea. Even if you only have one guitar part going on at a time, DOUBLE-TRACK it and pan hard left and right. I mean double-track, too, not copy the track into both left and right channels and EQ it a little different - it's not the same. Play it twice.

Jeez. You probably already knew that - I was just venting with the last bit.

I'm pretty good about multi-tracking my guitar parts, though I've cheated before and done the copy/EQ thing; combined with a slight offset on the sampling it can have cool results, but it's different that playing it twice. The song I'm currenlty working on actually has quadruple-tracked guitars -- and all playing essentially the same part, though two of them are using different voicings of the same chords. The two main ones are 100% left and right while the second two are about 50% left and right. Drums are stereo, but not particularly wide. Bass and lead vox are right up the middle.

I've been panning my bg vox harder than what you suggest -- from 60-100%. Perhaps I should reign those in a bit.


Originally Posted by seafoamerI can't stress enough the cutting of un-needed frequencies in ALL sounds/tracks. If you do this for every sound/track in ur miix, ur stuff will be much more listenable.

1 billion. Great advice, so long as you don't go nuts and start cutting stuff that you really need. Like anything, there's a quot;sweet spotquot; where it will sound perfect.

Also, your natural inclination may be to push the faders up when you are having trouble hearing vocal parts. Don't do this! Here is what you should try:

1. Foamer's tip above
2. Turn down everything else (most guitarists tend to mix guitars too high - I am guilty of this too)
3. Experiment with compression and gates.

Some VERY good info here! Dashing's advice about dropping everything is some of the least used advice, but yields the best results.. If you raise everything to match the loudest part, you will most likely run outta headroom and some distrotion will be present once you mixdown. Pull everything back until a uniform sound can be achieved, and keep an eye on the master output level meters or LED's....

Also with panning, this is my suggestion... picutre the band standing on stage singing, and pan each track according to their position in relation to the lead singer, who will be center! This will add a realistic dimension that will allow you to zone in on those sweet spots....

Enjoy, and dont forget to post clips when you are done!!
Allen

I'm a bassist first and foremost so I'm all too willing to sacrifice my guitar parts. I do, however, have a bad habit of burying my vocals because even after all these years, I can't get used to the sound of my own voice. Originally Posted by ratherdashing(most guitarists tend to mix guitars too high - I am guilty of this too).
Well, I was still unable to figure out a way to fit more than two backing voices at a time when using just my own voice, but the results of my experiments can be found at the site in my sig: . The song at the top, One Year Path, is certainly NOT the sort of song that BR would ever do but it's kinda fun and the call/response vocals remind me a little of something you might hear on No Control or earlier records.

My gf is gonna come over tomorrow and add at least one more voice to the bg vox. She's got a much better ear for harmony than I do, so hopefully she'll come up with something cool.

Heh, I love BR! Besides the panning and EQ suggestions, try making the vocals a little lower in volume and add a little reverb to them. Graffin's sound is awesome, especially on songs like Too Much To Ask, Generator, etc. You have a good voice (lucky guy) and you shjould be able to work with it.