software

ok,

i as well as many of us here love the sounds of boutique amps. i also recently put a down payment on the Deliverance60 VHT head to back this up.

but how come all our favorite guitar sounds are almost 95% recorded with either an old Fender or Marshall amp??

know what i mean?

so instead we love boutique amps. how come we dont buy what made our favorite sounds?

Maybe cause those were vintage amps and had an intricate way of setting them up to get those sounds, and the new boutique amps can get the sound 'out of the box'?

ideas?

Boutique stuff in my opinion started when Randall at Mesa Boogie started modifying Fenders. The original stuff was all mostly recorded on Fenders and Marshalls and Vox's cuz that was about it in the amp world to most guys back then. The boutique stuff really started to grow as the big boys started to let quality slip, inferior parts in the amps, circuit boards and solid s tate power sectuins, etc...

Boutique was born of a desire for more of something that was getting harder to find. Where can sopmeone get a reasonably priced ac15 or jtm45 these days? we want that tone with premium parts and hand-wired reliability at a fair price, but what we get from Marshal, Vox and the rest are POS flimsy circuit boards made in a sweatshop by the oppressed making 50 cents an hour/day? That's a sweeping coffee induced generalization, but it is thw way i see it.

well, the market for vintage amps is still alive and well, and there are plenty of the boutique amps that are reissues or retro type amps, like Victoria, Allen, Clark, etc ..

but there are also plenty newer amps that are more modern in features, and higher gain

we happen to live in great times, gear wise - there's plenty to meet everyone's needs


Originally Posted by Scott_FWhere can sopmeone get a reasonably priced ac15 or jtm45 these days? we want that tone with premium parts and hand-wired reliability at a fair price

Let me think... ya know... there's a guy here... Scott... he makes Latin... no... Saxon... no... CELTIC AMPS!

Almost all my favorite guitar sounds are recorded with boutique stuff, but I listen to mostly modern music
I do dig the old tones, they are classic and set a new standard. I just like modern tones better.

Gary is correct. We are in the Golden Age of Guitar Amplification. You can thank the internet for a lot of this. Guys like me can get a wealth of technical data 24-7. Parts suppliers are recreating old trannies and such because there is an army of DIY'ers out there to purchase them.
I do the classic stuff. Then theres guys like jeff seal and winj that dig on the high gain channel switcher stuff. Whatever floats your boat, someone out there will take the time to do it right and give you a war horse at the end.

Very cool stuff happening these days.

I think that we don't buy the stuff that made our sounds is fourfold.

1. The prices of this stuff (old Fender Supers, Deluxes, Twins and Marshall JTM45s, Plexis, etc.) is out of the roof.

2. Most amps (boutique especially) are modeled to sound like something else anyway, but because it is a different manufacturer, we tell ourselves that Matchless or Bogner or Custom Audio Electronics or whatever sounds totally unique, when in reality they don't.

3. Boutique amps, since they are newer, are more reliable and easier to be serviced since most builders back their stuff up really well.

4. We, as tone seekers, look to use new technology rather than tried and true circuits to find great tone...This is both EXTREMELY stupid and EXTREMELY idiotic, depending on how you look at it.

My 16 year old beliefs. Take it for what it's worth.
A lot of professional recording studios make it a habit of carrying the quot;classicsquot;. I'm talking about amps like Fender Twins, Marshall Plexis and Vox AC-30s. They know that their clients want the classic tones that can be obtained from these amps. Lots of people don't know about boutique amps and can't follow what's going on with them, and there is always the mentality that quot;nothing will ever come close to the originalsquot;.

I'm a boutique guy. While I deal with electricity every day with my job, I don't know a lot about amp circuitry and I don't want to have to deal with it. I want my amps to be reliable with a minimum amount of effort. I don't know how to bias my own power tubes and I'd rather not have to touch it if I don't have to. I want something that sounds great day in and day out and that won't need regular servicing.

This is why boutique is the way to go. You get quality from handwired, professional amp designers. Many boutique amps are designed to replicate oldschool tones with modern day conveniences (things like multiple FX loops, channel switching, etc.). I like seeing some other boutique amps out there that like carving out their own niche. Some of these amps that come to mind are the CAA OD-100 (modded Marshall and vintage Fender in one), the Fargen VOS (the perfect blend of a Dumble and the sweetest old Marshall plexi you've ever heard) and VHT Deliverance (a one channel do it all, high gain masterpiece).

All excellent points, Fuzzy.As he said, I could example spend around a grand on one of Scott's amps and know that it'll be backed up well, and know that it'll quality. Orrrrrr...I can go on a crapshoot with lt;insert big name company heregt; and hope to get a good amp.

Boutique amps and smaller-company-built guitars are the way to go it seems. This coming from the guy with the a Fender, Ibanez and DeArmond, but I still think that way. My next amp will likely be boutique and my next guitar MIGHT be custom/from a local company.

Sheer numbers of the high production/familiar models are a lot of the reason.

Studio time is not free. The clock is always running, and the stress that one feels can be like quot;watching yourself be operated onquot;. No matter how well a fella knows his gear...one must deal with, and surrender some control to studio techs to a large degree. The meeting point between the player/studio engineer is often at the amplifier.

It's mostly a 90's/2000's phenomenon, so a great number of newer recordings feature boutique amps. Go on the boutique amp websites, and read their roster of artists, and you'll see who's using what.

yeah ,

i agree, with most everything that was said.

those were about all the amps that were around then.

i wonder what Van Halen might have used if Bogner or VHT was around back then. Then again he was the reason these guys start creating these amps anyway. i have to totally agree that the big boys now make silly unreliable batch products. Thank God for the Boutique makers for being around and giving us great tone with the best of old and new technology.

dunno- i never cared who made the amp as long as it sounds good. im not a snob either way- i use modelers live as well as a tube amp depending on the gig. for recording it is almost always modelers, since it is a lot easier to craft certain tones. but i generally don't go for classic amp sounds anyway.

I agree with Joneser. I was watching Keith Urban live on TV and I believe he had a wall of Matchless amps behind him.


Originally Posted by GearjoneserIt's mostly a 90's/2000's phenomenon, so a great number of newer recordings feature boutique amps. Go on the boutique amp websites, and read their roster of artists, and you'll see who's using what.

Yeah, the list at soldano.com is like a who's who of rock guitar.

I agree with silly batch products analogy to a certain extent. The simple fact that in today's dollars/affluence, these small scale wonderful and caring manufacturers are creating amps of higher quality for equal or less cost than average musician could buy from quot;the big guysquot; in the 1970's.

In the early eighties and earlier, the big manufacturers were putting out product that took a consumer X-number of work hours to buy. Since then, the entire musical instrument/gear industry has gone through a complete metamorphosis, and these same mass manufacturers have endured, and dropped the price for the average consumer, to absolutely bargain levels compared to the 1970's.

The botique manufacturer has filled the gap with their blood and sweat, so that that today's musician can take those same equivalent 1970's work hours, and get a product that is really special and unique.

Just one minor example...I bought my Boss SD-1 for $65 in 1980 or so. How much money is that equal to now? $130...$200?

What completely blows my mind these days is how far off track the big guys are nowadays. They haven't been expanding on the tried and true circuits that have established rock for all these years. I know certain features are important and I don't diminish the need for channel switching and master volume amps for certain applications, but I don't understand why anyone would be so dogged in their pursuit of these features to the exclusion of simple good sound.

I will be buying boutique or really solid and underappreciated amps like the Mig-50 that I currently own from now on.


Originally Posted by Gr8ScottI know certain features are important and I don't diminish the need for channel switching and master volume amps for certain applications, but I don't understand why anyone would be so dogged in their pursuit of these features to the exclusion of simple good sound.

If you want anything beyond AC/DC crunch gain-wise, a single channel amp likely isn't going to give satisfactory cleans. That means that the alternatives are mediocre (at best) cleans or a multi-amp setup (and fun like ground loops).
It's similar for NMV amps--it's not practical to get much distortion at volumes that are appropriate for small gigs let alone basement-friendly volumes. Also, there's no such thing as a true high gain NMV amp so in that case, it could be about pursuit of a desired tone.


Originally Posted by tone?yeah ,
i wonder what Van Halen might have used if Bogner or VHT was around back then. Then again he was the reason these guys start creating these amps anyway.

Eddie's #1 Marshall, used on all the early recordings was put in the hands of Reinhold Bogner, after Reinhold showed up in LA, doing work on vintage Marshalls. Apparently, Bogner replaced all the worn components in Ed's Marshalls. This was the time that Reinhold started building the ultimate Marshall, the Ecstasy......in 93/94. Both Nightburst and I are lucky to have obtained one of those early 'loaded white chassis Ecstacys from 94.'
In the early 90's, Bogner was located on Lankershim Blvd, North Hollywood, in the back of Make'n'Music, who are now in Chicago. Now, Bogner is located a couple miles away from his original location on Victory Blvd, North Hollywood.
It's been rumoured that Ed's Peavey's have the guts stripped out and rebuilt by Reinhold Bogner. A little mouse told me that the Peaveys parts end up in Bogner's dumpster!

I think you have to factor in that some of our favorite amps were actually quot;boutiquequot; in quality back in the day - ie my Marshall is hand wired and looks gorgeous inside, and to this day roars with a creamy tone you just don't find anywhere.

as far as boutiques go, I have used some great stuff, but I feel like they don't have the open, basic tone of a Marshall or Fender. In this day and age you can mic an amp and with great sound cards (like the UAD-1) you can EQ and compress to perfection! I will say some boutiques like Rivera, Mojave, Budda, etc have great tone out of the box, but none of them are open enough to simply tke pedals really well like an old bassman or plexi.

I think the boutique revolution is spurred by people with tons of money, like weekend warriors and lawyers who still love their rockstar youth and can afford these things. People like me simply cannot. I paid next to nothing for my Marshalls, they are work horses and they have a basic tone with low expectations. You just tube 'em up and let it rip, if it doesn't sound right you just dump the amp. With a $3000 boutique your expectations change.

My biggest problem with some boutiques from Mesa to VHT - they sound great, but too many features and too much of a learning curve. I like a basic EQ set, either you get on a dark stage and in 20 secs milk your sound form the knobs or you get fired from the gig. In the studio, I have friends bring in everything from vintage amps to Diezels. They all sound great, but without a great engineer and a person who knows how to work the sound - I am shocked how a $4000 amp can be not much better than Line 6 gear for a fraction of the price.