Hey guys, obviously this depends on the speakers, but I've heard generally 2x12s lack the bass that a 4x12 cab does, if thats true then why?
*EDIT* the reason i am asking is because i'm looking at some Avatar 2x12s compared to the 4x12 and i'm just wondering what the bass response difference would be
*EDIT* I already own a behringer 4x12 with jensens, that being said should i get a 2x12 avatar and run both together? or simply get a new avatar 4x12?
Yes, generally 2X12quot; cabs don't have the bass repsonse of a full 4X12quot; cab, but I'm sure there are really nice 2X12quot;s that have better bass response than some 4X12quot;s... I don't have specific examples, other than my Mesa/Boogie upright 2X12quot; cab has GREAT bass response, that I'm sure rivals some 4X12quot; cabs.
Rock ON!!!
I can throw down with any stack using my Marshall and Vox 2x12's being pushed by my Mesa 50/50 power section.
4x12s typically have a fuller response than 2x12s. However, I've been using 2x12s because they're simply lighter and they still get great tone. Think of all the pros that use combos on the road like the Vox AC-30 and I'm willing to bet most of them are 2x12 (don't hear any complaining from them ).
If you aren't getting enough bass, I'd surely look into a different speaker; I've had no issues with bass response in mine. Heck, Bad Cat proved to me even two 10'' Celestions can knock you out with bass
I've got a Marshall 2x12 amp; a Marshall 4x10....both the same size...and they get plenty of bass response with both open amp; closed backs.
I know some cabs are ported, like the G-Flex. You can also keep the 2x12 on the floor for a little extra bass.
How much bass ya' looking for?????
If you ask me 2x12s have a much bigger and more compressed bottom end, that's about the only reason I'm using them instead of 4x12 cabs
2x12 cabs have plenty of bass. Just make sure you get one with a closed back, so you can get the most amount of bass.
I've had 3 2x12 cabs over the years. A slant top upright Sonic, a 65 Bassman, and a no name that's gone through many different pairs and combinations of speakers.
The Sonic was proportionally smaller than the volume of a 4x12 (it was smaller than if you took a 4x12 and chopped it in half from top to bottom), the Bassman was proportionally smaller than a 4x12, and the no-name is proportionally larger. The cab is about 1.5-2quot; wider than my Marshall and about 1.5-2quot; deeper than my Marshall at the bottom. The interesting thing, the back seems like it's designed to be removable- 1/3 of it comes off- for accessing speakers, but it actually sounds a bit better- if more 'diffused' than when it's closed.
To answer the question, though- it doesn't sound as big or as bassy as the 4x12.
I used to have two Weber C1230s in my open-back Trutone cab and it had more chunk on it than a Layne Bryant model. And i didn't even really have the bass up that much to get some woof in there.
It depends mostly on the speaker quality, the cab build type, and the cab build QUALITY. In my case I had all three going for me and got great results.
Sealed 4 x 12 cabs have twice the speaker surface area and usually are much bigger inside the cabinet than sealed 2 x 12 cabs. Because the interior volume of a 4 x 12 is much greater than the 2 x 12 cab, the speakers can move more freely, thus producing more bass. The air trapped inside a sealed cab acts like a big spring as the speaker cones move in the cab and the sound waves inside the cab compress that trapped air...the looser the quot;springquot; the more easily the speaker can move and a bigger cab, like the 4 x 12 will have a looser air spring. That, and the fact that four speakers have twice the surface area of two is the reason that a 4 x 12 cab will have more bass. Lew
Originally Posted by LewguitarSealed 4 x 12 cabs have twice the speaker surface area and usually are much bigger inside the cabinet than sealed 2 x 12 cabs. Because the interior volume of a 4 x 12 is much greater than the 2 x 12 cab, the speakers can move more freely, thus producing more bass. The air trapped inside a sealed cab acts like a big spring as the speaker cones move in the cab and the sound waves inside the cab compress that trapped air...the looser the quot;springquot; the more easily the speaker can move and a bigger cab, like the 4 x 12 will have a looser air spring. That, and the fact that four speakers have twice the surface area of two is the reason that a 4 x 12 cab will have more bass. Lew
Thanks for the explanation, Lew! Is that also why the oversized Mesa Recto cabs have bigger bass than a Marshall cab?
Originally Posted by ratherdashingThanks for the explanation, Lew! Is that also why the oversized Mesa Recto cabs have bigger bass than a Marshall cab?
The speakers make a big diff too of course and if the speakers in the Mesa and the Marshall are not the same speakers it's impossible to answer that question. But generally speaking, if you have the same two speakers in a sealed 2 cubic foot cabinet and also in a sealed 8 cubic foot cabinet, and you compared the sounds of the two cabinets with the same speakers, the larger cabinet will produce deeper bass. Lew
sweeet guys thanks
Originally Posted by LewguitarSealed 4 x 12 cabs have twice the speaker surface area and usually are much bigger inside the cabinet than sealed 2 x 12 cabs. Because the interior volume of a 4 x 12 is much greater than the 2 x 12 cab, the speakers can move more freely, thus producing more bass. The air trapped inside a sealed cab acts like a big spring as the speaker cones move in the cab and the sound waves inside the cab compress that trapped air...the looser the quot;springquot; the more easily the speaker can move and a bigger cab, like the 4 x 12 will have a looser air spring. That, and the fact that four speakers have twice the surface area of two is the reason that a 4 x 12 cab will have more bass. Lew
In general the ratios for internal volume is the same, so the doubing of speakers and doubling of volume means that it doesn't increase the bass. Instead, having double the drivers adds 6dB to the volume if I remember correctly.
This is one of the reasons why high-quality speaker manufacturers actually cut their multi-woofer speakers into sections (internally and externally) so that if one speaker fails it doesn't offset the other drivers and potentially harm them since the volume which they quot;seequot; is still the same. If you do not do this, if a speaker fails it will sound much worse because the internal volume the speaker quot;seesquot; will be larger because the other driver isn't quot;using the spacequot; if you get that picture.
Originally Posted by D-EJ915In general the ratios for internal volume is the same, so the doubing of speakers and doubling of volume means that it doesn't increase the bass. Instead, having double the drivers adds 6dB to the volume if I remember correctly.
This is one of the reasons why high-quality speaker manufacturers actually cut their multi-woofer speakers into sections (internally and externally) so that if one speaker fails it doesn't offset the other drivers and potentially harm them since the volume which they quot;seequot; is still the same. If you do not do this, if a speaker fails it will sound much worse because the internal volume the speaker quot;seesquot; will be larger because the other driver isn't quot;using the spacequot; if you get that picture.
Thanks for the info! I probably should have just said that larger sealed speaker enclosures allow a guitar speaker to move more freely and produce deeper bass than if it were in a much smaller sealed enclosure.
But in a way, this holds true whether it's an open back or closed back cab. In an open back cab, the deeper the cab the longer it will take for sound waves coming off of the back of the speaker (which are out of phase with the waves coming off of the front of the speaker) to get around to the front and cancel the waves from the front, and vice versa...so speakers sound deeper if the cab is bigger and deeper even if it's an open back cab.
But in a closed back or sealed cab, the larger the cab, the deeper the bass too...but for a differant reason. The speaker is able to move more freely in the larger cabinet because the air is compressed less in a larger cab than in a small sealed cab and restricts the speaker's movement less. Lew
*EDIT* the reason i am asking is because i'm looking at some Avatar 2x12s compared to the 4x12 and i'm just wondering what the bass response difference would be
*EDIT* I already own a behringer 4x12 with jensens, that being said should i get a 2x12 avatar and run both together? or simply get a new avatar 4x12?
Yes, generally 2X12quot; cabs don't have the bass repsonse of a full 4X12quot; cab, but I'm sure there are really nice 2X12quot;s that have better bass response than some 4X12quot;s... I don't have specific examples, other than my Mesa/Boogie upright 2X12quot; cab has GREAT bass response, that I'm sure rivals some 4X12quot; cabs.
Rock ON!!!
I can throw down with any stack using my Marshall and Vox 2x12's being pushed by my Mesa 50/50 power section.
4x12s typically have a fuller response than 2x12s. However, I've been using 2x12s because they're simply lighter and they still get great tone. Think of all the pros that use combos on the road like the Vox AC-30 and I'm willing to bet most of them are 2x12 (don't hear any complaining from them ).
If you aren't getting enough bass, I'd surely look into a different speaker; I've had no issues with bass response in mine. Heck, Bad Cat proved to me even two 10'' Celestions can knock you out with bass
I've got a Marshall 2x12 amp; a Marshall 4x10....both the same size...and they get plenty of bass response with both open amp; closed backs.
I know some cabs are ported, like the G-Flex. You can also keep the 2x12 on the floor for a little extra bass.
How much bass ya' looking for?????
If you ask me 2x12s have a much bigger and more compressed bottom end, that's about the only reason I'm using them instead of 4x12 cabs
2x12 cabs have plenty of bass. Just make sure you get one with a closed back, so you can get the most amount of bass.
I've had 3 2x12 cabs over the years. A slant top upright Sonic, a 65 Bassman, and a no name that's gone through many different pairs and combinations of speakers.
The Sonic was proportionally smaller than the volume of a 4x12 (it was smaller than if you took a 4x12 and chopped it in half from top to bottom), the Bassman was proportionally smaller than a 4x12, and the no-name is proportionally larger. The cab is about 1.5-2quot; wider than my Marshall and about 1.5-2quot; deeper than my Marshall at the bottom. The interesting thing, the back seems like it's designed to be removable- 1/3 of it comes off- for accessing speakers, but it actually sounds a bit better- if more 'diffused' than when it's closed.
To answer the question, though- it doesn't sound as big or as bassy as the 4x12.
I used to have two Weber C1230s in my open-back Trutone cab and it had more chunk on it than a Layne Bryant model. And i didn't even really have the bass up that much to get some woof in there.
It depends mostly on the speaker quality, the cab build type, and the cab build QUALITY. In my case I had all three going for me and got great results.
Sealed 4 x 12 cabs have twice the speaker surface area and usually are much bigger inside the cabinet than sealed 2 x 12 cabs. Because the interior volume of a 4 x 12 is much greater than the 2 x 12 cab, the speakers can move more freely, thus producing more bass. The air trapped inside a sealed cab acts like a big spring as the speaker cones move in the cab and the sound waves inside the cab compress that trapped air...the looser the quot;springquot; the more easily the speaker can move and a bigger cab, like the 4 x 12 will have a looser air spring. That, and the fact that four speakers have twice the surface area of two is the reason that a 4 x 12 cab will have more bass. Lew
Originally Posted by LewguitarSealed 4 x 12 cabs have twice the speaker surface area and usually are much bigger inside the cabinet than sealed 2 x 12 cabs. Because the interior volume of a 4 x 12 is much greater than the 2 x 12 cab, the speakers can move more freely, thus producing more bass. The air trapped inside a sealed cab acts like a big spring as the speaker cones move in the cab and the sound waves inside the cab compress that trapped air...the looser the quot;springquot; the more easily the speaker can move and a bigger cab, like the 4 x 12 will have a looser air spring. That, and the fact that four speakers have twice the surface area of two is the reason that a 4 x 12 cab will have more bass. Lew
Thanks for the explanation, Lew! Is that also why the oversized Mesa Recto cabs have bigger bass than a Marshall cab?
Originally Posted by ratherdashingThanks for the explanation, Lew! Is that also why the oversized Mesa Recto cabs have bigger bass than a Marshall cab?
The speakers make a big diff too of course and if the speakers in the Mesa and the Marshall are not the same speakers it's impossible to answer that question. But generally speaking, if you have the same two speakers in a sealed 2 cubic foot cabinet and also in a sealed 8 cubic foot cabinet, and you compared the sounds of the two cabinets with the same speakers, the larger cabinet will produce deeper bass. Lew
sweeet guys thanks
Originally Posted by LewguitarSealed 4 x 12 cabs have twice the speaker surface area and usually are much bigger inside the cabinet than sealed 2 x 12 cabs. Because the interior volume of a 4 x 12 is much greater than the 2 x 12 cab, the speakers can move more freely, thus producing more bass. The air trapped inside a sealed cab acts like a big spring as the speaker cones move in the cab and the sound waves inside the cab compress that trapped air...the looser the quot;springquot; the more easily the speaker can move and a bigger cab, like the 4 x 12 will have a looser air spring. That, and the fact that four speakers have twice the surface area of two is the reason that a 4 x 12 cab will have more bass. Lew
In general the ratios for internal volume is the same, so the doubing of speakers and doubling of volume means that it doesn't increase the bass. Instead, having double the drivers adds 6dB to the volume if I remember correctly.
This is one of the reasons why high-quality speaker manufacturers actually cut their multi-woofer speakers into sections (internally and externally) so that if one speaker fails it doesn't offset the other drivers and potentially harm them since the volume which they quot;seequot; is still the same. If you do not do this, if a speaker fails it will sound much worse because the internal volume the speaker quot;seesquot; will be larger because the other driver isn't quot;using the spacequot; if you get that picture.
Originally Posted by D-EJ915In general the ratios for internal volume is the same, so the doubing of speakers and doubling of volume means that it doesn't increase the bass. Instead, having double the drivers adds 6dB to the volume if I remember correctly.
This is one of the reasons why high-quality speaker manufacturers actually cut their multi-woofer speakers into sections (internally and externally) so that if one speaker fails it doesn't offset the other drivers and potentially harm them since the volume which they quot;seequot; is still the same. If you do not do this, if a speaker fails it will sound much worse because the internal volume the speaker quot;seesquot; will be larger because the other driver isn't quot;using the spacequot; if you get that picture.
Thanks for the info! I probably should have just said that larger sealed speaker enclosures allow a guitar speaker to move more freely and produce deeper bass than if it were in a much smaller sealed enclosure.
But in a way, this holds true whether it's an open back or closed back cab. In an open back cab, the deeper the cab the longer it will take for sound waves coming off of the back of the speaker (which are out of phase with the waves coming off of the front of the speaker) to get around to the front and cancel the waves from the front, and vice versa...so speakers sound deeper if the cab is bigger and deeper even if it's an open back cab.
But in a closed back or sealed cab, the larger the cab, the deeper the bass too...but for a differant reason. The speaker is able to move more freely in the larger cabinet because the air is compressed less in a larger cab than in a small sealed cab and restricts the speaker's movement less. Lew
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