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I am interested in getting new pups for my 335 w/ 57 classics. The pups sound very dry for some reason. I do have a cap on the volume to prevent loss of highs (could this have anything to do with it?). So I am considering SD Antiquitys or possibly some Wagner Crossroads, or Darkburst pups. The guitar is pretty well balanced acoustically, but notes seem to jump out of the guitar with minimal bloom. I am using a Victoria 20112 (tweed Deluxe clone).

Are SD antiquities consistantly good sounding, and are the unbalanced coils similar from pup to pup? Has anyone compared them to the Wagners? And, would you recommend not wiring the cap to the volume and just deal with the tone change as the volume pot is turned.

I am looking for a blues tone that can cover BB, Luther Allison, Otis Rush and maybe some Cream/Eric Clapton quot;From the Cradlequot; tone. As you know rewiring a 335 is not fun, so I would like to get it right the first time lol.

ive never heard a paf type pup sound so good in so many guitars thru so many amps as the antiquity bucker.

i just heard a '58 ri with the wagner darkbursts and they were amazing. thats only one guitar and two players thru one amp. very nice though.

ive known people with 335 style guitars, pauls, strats, teles, jazz boxes, even ibanez with antiquitys and they always sound great. sound great thru any amp ive ever heard them thru.

for those guys youll be in great shape

The only Wagner I've personally tried is a Goodwood. THat was in the neck of a chambered, mahogany tele. It didn't work well for me and I wound up selling it. In all fairness, I should have tried it with a 300K pot instead of the 250K's I use. I know others who use Fillmores and Darkbursts and love them. Jim winds some great pups.

For my needs, the Antiquity sounded great in this guitar as did the Seth Lover. The blues tones you describe were right there with the Seth and Antiquity.

I've recently changed from a Dimarzio PAF Classic to a VV PAF. The VV is staying in this guitar. A perfect match. Great pickup for the blues.

I have a custom made, small body semi-hollow with Jon Moore buckers. These are perhaps the most amazing humbucking pickups I've ever heard in a semi-hollow. The blues tones are rich, warm, fat, articulate and inspiring.

Te get back to your question on the Wagners or Antiquities though....I tryly believe you would be happy with either. If it were me, I'd pop for the Antiquities.....or a set of the 50th anniversity Duncans MF sells.

PUPS are suited for a particular type of sound. IF a PAF sound is what you are after try the Alnico pros. IMO they sound as close to the real PAF as anything else I have heard. They are very warm sounding yet at the same time they can growl real well. It would be a good choice for a 335.

For a 335, I think you can't really go wrong with Ants, or any of the other boutique PAF makers for that matter. You'll encounter different flavors but most of the well-reviewed pickups are going to sound great. I had a set of Timbuckers in a 335 clone and they sounded beautiful. I am sure Ants would have sounded great too.

With good pots, caps, and 50s wiring, you can get a great variety of tones. The PAF bridge pickup can be really bright, but good pots/caps/wiring can tame that. I was used to having everything on 10 until I experimented with that. What a world of sound it opens up.

Good luck! I love Otis too.

I have tried many fancy PAF clones (wagners - fillmores; rolphs; timbuckers; seths; voodoos) and I think magnet modded antiquities are as good as any of those. Which one to chose depends on what you want and the wood and the particular features of the guitar you are going to use in.

For example, I love timbuckers. Think that they are one of the best out there. But they sounded real bad in my R7. The neck was great but the bridge was simply too thin. (The same happened with florance's voodoos.) But the same set of timbuckers sounded magnificient in my R8. I ended up with rolph's 59's in my R7. They are first class. I could have used a a5/a3 modded antiquity set in that guitar, they sounded great. But since I have another set with a4 ant bridge and stock dun-aged a2 ant neck in my 04 standard I have chosen the rolphs. Not because they sounded better, they just sounded different and both of them are fine.

Ants have that 3 dimensional clarity. The notes bloom, I mean with pick attack you get a 3d harmonic that does not scream but sing. This is as good as I can describe. You gotta hear it for yourself.

The only complaint I consistently hear about ants is that the magnet is too weak, thus, its tone too smooth. I love that in the neck, because with duncan's magic the tone is still open though smooth. You hear all the harmonics (not screaming but singing). But I agree about the smoothness in the bridge. I love upfront bridge tones and that is why I generally use a5's or a4's in the bridge.

Good luck,

B

I'm still lovin' the 59/CC Hybrid. I have tried an antiquity on one occassion. I found it to be too vintage. I like a little modern tone.


Originally Posted by dr.barloI have tried many fancy PAF clones (wagners - fillmores; rolphs; timbuckers; seths; voodoos) and I think magnet modded antiquities are as good as any of those. Which one to chose depends on what you want and the wood and the particular features of the guitar you are going to use in.

For example, I love timbuckers. Think that they are one of the best out there. But they sounded real bad in my R7. The neck was great but the bridge was simply too thin. (The same happened with florance's voodoos.) But the same set of timbuckers sounded magnificient in my R8. I ended up with rolph's 59's in my R7. They are first class. I could have used a a5/a3 modded antiquity set in that guitar, they sounded great. But since I have another set with a4 ant bridge and stock dun-aged a2 ant neck in my 04 standard I have chosen the rolphs. Not because they sounded better, they just sounded different and both of them are fine.

Ants have that 3 dimensional clarity. The notes bloom, I mean with pick attack you get a 3d harmonic that does not scream but sing. This is as good as I can describe. You gotta hear it for yourself.

The only complaint I consistently hear about ants is that the magnet is too weak, thus, its tone too smooth. I love that in the neck, because with duncan's magic the tone is still open though smooth. You hear all the harmonics (not screaming but singing). But I agree about the smoothness in the bridge. I love upfront bridge tones and that is why I generally use a5's or a4's in the bridge.

Good luck,

B

Excellent post and advice. Nothing like real world experience to find out what works and what doesn't. I don't know why I'm always surprised when a pup that sounds good in one guitar sound like dog breath in another.

Thanks for the input. I have heard the complaint about the weak magnets in the Antiquities, but that shouldnt be an issue as I am mostly a Strat player and my main guitar is only about 5.8ohms. I have listened to a site that has sound samples and the Antiquities seem more open in the mids and do seem to have a bit more harmonic content. The Wagners seem a bit congested, but this guitar is on the bright side so I am still on the fence. The SDs are about $80 less expensive for the set and that could go into pots and labor. (I just dont think I can rewire it anymore).

Are the Antiquities consistent and does it pay to have a higher or lower ohm picked out.


Originally Posted by telebloozThe only Wagner I've personally tried is a Goodwood. THat was in the neck of a chambered, mahogany tele. It didn't work well for me and I wound up selling it. In all fairness, I should have tried it with a 300K pot instead of the 250K's I use. I know others who use Fillmores and Darkbursts and love them. Jim winds some great pups.

For my needs, the Antiquity sounded great in this guitar as did the Seth Lover. The blues tones you describe were right there with the Seth and Antiquity.

I've recently changed from a Dimarzio PAF Classic to a VV PAF. The VV is staying in this guitar. A perfect match. Great pickup for the blues.

I have a custom made, small body semi-hollow with Jon Moore buckers. These are perhaps the most amazing humbucking pickups I've ever heard in a semi-hollow. The blues tones are rich, warm, fat, articulate and inspiring.

Te get back to your question on the Wagners or Antiquities though....I tryly believe you would be happy with either. If it were me, I'd pop for the Antiquities.....or a set of the 50th anniversity Duncans MF sells.How would you compare the PAF Classic to the Virtual PAF?Dimarzio makes a alot of PAF type pickups now....from what I hear from alot of people....they don't get the attention they deserve as Dimarzio is always thought of as high-gain only type company.


Originally Posted by daCaTThanks for the input. I have heard the complaint about the weak magnets in the Antiquities, but that shouldnt be an issue as I am mostly a Strat player and my main guitar is only about 5.8ohms. I have listened to a site that has sound samples and the Antiquities seem more open in the mids and do seem to have a bit more harmonic content. The Wagners seem a bit congested, but this guitar is on the bright side so I am still on the fence. The SDs are about $80 less expensive for the set and that could go into pots and labor. (I just dont think I can rewire it anymore).

Are the Antiquities consistent and does it pay to have a higher or lower ohm picked out.

Glad I could help!

If your guitar is a bright one, by all means get a set of antiquities. Try them, if they work for you ok then you'd keep them without any mods. If you experience problems in the bridge (due to that softness issue I was talking about) you could swap the stock magnet with a full power a2 (or a3). Don't worry it is not difficult. If it were to come to that just ask here. Besides me there are lotsa nice guys around here knowing the details.

Regarding the ohmage, well I'd say get a 8.50-8.75 bridge (these are easy to find) and 7.50-7.80 neck (well finding necks with a resistance value more than 8.70K is not that easy, but still possible).

Ask Lew (lewguitars) or Kevin (Blackrosecustoms) because they can look into their inventory and hand pick the one with the right dc values.

Good luck.

B


Originally Posted by daCaTI am interested in getting new pups for my 335 w/ 57 classics. The pups sound very dry for some reason. I do have a cap on the volume to prevent loss of highs (could this have anything to do with it?). So I am considering SD Antiquitys or possibly some Wagner Crossroads, or Darkburst pups. The guitar is pretty well balanced acoustically, but notes seem to jump out of the guitar with minimal bloom. I am using a Victoria 20112 (tweed Deluxe clone).

Are SD antiquities consistantly good sounding, and are the unbalanced coils similar from pup to pup? Has anyone compared them to the Wagners? And, would you recommend not wiring the cap to the volume and just deal with the tone change as the volume pot is turned.

I am looking for a blues tone that can cover BB, Luther Allison, Otis Rush and maybe some Cream/Eric Clapton quot;From the Cradlequot; tone. As you know rewiring a 335 is not fun, so I would like to get it right the first time lol.

All of those guys sound like they're using a5 pickups to me. Antiquities are a2. If you don't like the Antiquities once you get them into the guitar, try popping an a5 magnet in them.

I really agree with Dr. Barlo's post! I love the Antiquity Humbuckers but like the old pafs that I've owned, the tone can be warmer and smoother than new pickups. Three dimensional but very warm and smooth...at least in my guitars that I've tried them in.

Personally, sometimes I prefer a little more quot;bitequot;...the aged magnets warm up the tone so that the Ants sound very much like a 50 year old humbucker like you'd find in a '58 Les Paul or ES-335. It's a wonderful tone though...very comfortable and not so steely as those '57 Classics you're thinking of replacing.

There was a slightly steely/metallic quality to the highs in the '57 Classics that came in my Les Paul Historic...and although I think that at the time, they were some of the best pickups Gibson had made since the mid 60's, I couldn't get totally comfortable with them...I wanted to hear something with a little more complexity, that 3-D quality Dr. Barlo mentioned...more of a hollow character but with some complexity and texture to the mids.

It's important to know that all of the boutique pickup winders have a personal preference and tone in thier heads that they are going for and that tone may or may not be found in every real 50's paf.

The real pafs from the 50's vary alot! Some are warmer some are brighter. Some are hotter some are weaker.

Some use alnico 2, some alnico 4 and some alnico 5!

So there's a wide range of tones to draw from if you're a pickup winder and everyone has a particular tonal quality that they are trying to bring out with thier pickups.

I'm most familar with the original Gibsons from '58, '59 and the early 60's...and the paf reissues from Seymour (alnico 2Seth Lover and Antiquity and alnico 5 '59), the alnico 4 Lindy Fralin humbucker, and the alnico 2 Tom Holmes humbuckers.

I haven't heard the Timbuckers or any of the others mentioned in this thread.

But I would say that the most articulate are the alnico 4 Lindy Fralin HB's and the warmest and most comfortable to the ear are the alnico 2 Seth Lover and Antiquity HB's from Seymour...I also love the bright tone and deep tight bass of the '59...especially as a bridge pickup.

For the neck, Jon Moore 7.6k humbucker with mismatched coils (mine is 4.1k screw and 3.5k slug) and Alnico 4 mag. All the fat you could ever want without sacrificing ANY clarity and chime.

Here's a paf shootout that you might like to read: from : localhost/legendarytones.com/humbpus1.htm

Thanks guys, I did find a site that has sound samples for the 57 classic, seth, antiquity, wagners etc. All done in the same guitar through the same amp. To me the wagners sounded a bit congested and the antiquities sounded very open in the mids with a hint of added upper harmonic (like someone else stated). To me the 57 and the Seth sounded similar being not as complex as as the Antiquity. The trouble with sound samples is they are always done on a Les Paul and the 335 has a different acoustic tone.

from : localhost/www1.gitarrebass.de/magazine/0502/paf.htm

Lew, I feel the same way about the sightly metallic sound coming from the 57s. To me it makes a dry tone and is rather lifeless. It could also be that I am used to my CS 56 strat and the single coil pup isnt as compressed and seems to breath and bloom. Could also be the guitar sucks lol.